To Protect and to Serve...

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#7,776
#7,776
SamRebel35 said:
In your estimation, which of the "usual suspects" would rag on the cops if this happened?
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You really want a detailed list? You know the list of usual suspects as well as I do.

Point being, the cop did the best thing he could have in calling for medical to arrive on scene. And six minutes after the call for an ambulance to arrive on scene is almost astonishing time.

The point being is that we cannot with any certainty say that individual wouldn't have died had the cop escorted them to the hospital. In this case, the patrolman wasn't trained for the medical situation at hand and called for EMTs to arrive. And in six minutes he had advanced care on scene to help.

There are a lot of "what if's" and "why's" we could place on this along with Monday Morning QB of the situation. Yet the immediate jump around here was finger pointing at the police because the patrolman did what would be presumably the right thing in alerting immediate medical care to respond to a situation he was not trained for. If you want to ask a question, how come the family didn't call 911 for an EMT automatically?

There's a pretty good question to ask that should be asked prior to blaming the cop for doing what they are trained to do.
 
#7,777
#7,777
Rasputin_Vol said:
Your response seems to indicate that you believe that there is a slippery slope between not zealously enforcing traffic laws and not enforcing rape and murder when in fact, there is no connection between the two. There has been a consistent theme in here that cops should go after people that commit crimes... meaning actions that damage or disturb life, limb or property. And as Grand Vol brought up last night, we need them to zealous enforce laws for both lower classes and upper classes. It shouldn't matter if a DA prosecutes it or not. If you have to gum up the system to make change happen by throwing politicians and corrupt doctors/lawyers/clergymen in jail, then so be it. If the testimony of a crackhead is good enough to put a common corner crook in handcuffs, then the testimony of a grieving father after seeing a negligent doctor butcher his wife or child should be just as good (I really don't think we should go that far, I just want Grand Vol's complaint about negligent doctors to run to its dystopic demise where you will see doctors fleeing the profession over fear of being accused of being negligent).
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crimes are breaking the law. any law that holds jurisdiction. it is not limited to damaging actions, even in your holy grail, the Constitution, laws are not limited to those actions.
 
#7,778
#7,778
Grand Vol said:
You really want a detailed list? You know the list of usual suspects as well as I do.

Point being, the cop did the best thing he could have in calling for medical to arrive on scene. And six minutes after the call for an ambulance to arrive on scene is almost astonishing time.

The point being is that we cannot with any certainty say that individual wouldn't have died had the cop escorted them to the hospital. In this case, the patrolman wasn't trained for the medical situation at hand and called for EMTs to arrive. And in six minutes he had advanced care on scene to help.

There are a lot of "what if's" and "why's" we could place on this along with Monday Morning QB of the situation. Yet the immediate jump around here was finger pointing at the police because the patrolman did what would be presumably the right thing in alerting immediate medical care to respond to a situation he was not trained for. If you want to ask a question, how come the family didn't call 911 for an EMT automatically?

There's a pretty good question to ask that should be asked prior to blaming the cop for doing what they are trained to do.
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You can't really ever blame the cop for following procedure.

This does expose an issue (at least with that department) that seemingly robs an officer from making a judgement call to deviate from procedure or having a very restrictive procedure in place to begin with.

Requiring all emergencies to be taken through an ambulance? They were within, what, 2 miles of the hospital?

This is a bad situation but if it was a new cop that was afraid of bending the rules (regardless of what they are) I dont' really fault him.

Unless video is up of the guy who died quite literally on the verge of death and the cop being forceful and patronizing towards the people he pulled over.

Point is, procedures are in place for a reason and in the age of dog-piling (and rightfully so) police departments that willfully violate procedure and are corrupt... it's hard to fault an individual cop for following what has been put in place.

The problem is when the procedures separate a police officer from being a community servant and instead a non-sentient enforcer of only procedures and laws.
 
#7,779
#7,779
volbeast33 said:
It was an asthma attack so the EMT's would have been able to stabilize him on the scene.....It's not something that would have had to wait for the hospital for them to deal with. So basically it took six minutes for help to arrive or five minutes to drive him to the hospital plus whatever time it took to load him back in the car and whatever time it took to get him inside the hospital for help.
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- 6 minutes for the ambulance to arrive

- another 5 minutes to get to the hospital from that location

That's 11 minutes versus 5... by my math.

Given the article said his lungs collapsed due to the cold and he died at the hospital... I would say that those 6 minutes did matter.
 
#7,780
#7,780
jp1 said:
I would argue that he was doing what he thought best once he saw the situation. Turns out he was likely wrong, but the "duty bound" line had absolutely nothing to do with this. Sometimes you raise fair points, but sometimes your hatred has you making stupid comments.
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"Duty bound" had everything to do with it. He followed protocol instead of being a human being.

The $64,000 question I have now is did the driver get a ticket for running the red light?
 
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#7,781
#7,781
Obsessed said:
And?

How is the cop to know?

My brother had a similiar deal happen. I was driving. We got stopped, the officer saw what was going on we got an escort to the hospital.
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I wouldn't have stopped, just dealt with it at the hospital.

My wife broke both bones in her ankle, compound fracture, the day of June Carter Cash's funeral. The police were blocking traffic at intersections so I went around, the cop and the funeral procession. Had her at the hospital in 5 minutes with 2 very pissed off officers in tow.
 
#7,783
#7,783
MercyPercy said:
Anyone who says they're surprised at the differing reactions of the officers would be lying through their teeth.

I have black and latino friends who were caught in the same exact compromising situations as me, and each time, I've gotten away with little more than a talking to and they've spent the night in jail and had to show up for court. It is what it is.
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And what it is, is wrong.
 
#7,784
#7,784
Even among those of us who aren't law enforcement friendly, there is only one person that I can think of that might would criticize the character of a LEO for rushing a person to the hospital in an attempt to save their life.
 
#7,785
#7,785
#7,786
#7,786
And, even more depressing:

“These shootings are grossly under*reported,” said Jim Bueermann, a former police chief and president of the Washington-based Police Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to improving law enforcement. “We are never going to reduce the number of police shootings if we don’t begin to accurately track this information.”
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#7,787
#7,787
volbeast33 said:
It was an asthma attack so the EMT's would have been able to stabilize him on the scene.....It's not something that would have had to wait for the hospital for them to deal with. So basically it took six minutes for help to arrive or five minutes to drive him to the hospital plus whatever time it took to load him back in the car and whatever time it took to get him inside the hospital for help.
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It took 6 mins to get there and would have taken 5 more mins to get to the hospital, in addition to the time needed to get him in the ambulance.
 
#7,790
#7,790
hog88 said:
I wouldn't have stopped, just dealt with it at the hospital.

My wife broke both bones in her ankle, compound fracture, the day of June Carter Cash's funeral. The police were blocking traffic at intersections so I went around, the cop and the funeral procession. Had her at the hospital in 5 minutes with 2 very pissed off officers in tow.
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This is a great way to get shot if you're dealing with the wrong cop on the wrong day.
 
#7,793
#7,793
Obsessed said:
So you want them to follow protocol, but you don't want them to follow protocol.

I get it now.
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NCAA protocol on transferring schools:

- Student-athlete doesn't like playing time opportunity, transfers. Has to go to a school that isn't blacklisted by his current and sit a year.

- Student-athlete has a hardship. Immediate eligibility.

There are deviations from the protocol in many circumstances. Just because you're saying "X player has a mother that has cancer, he just wants to let he watch him play" isn't saying "all players should be able to transfer with no penalty to any school at any time".

We're just asking that police officers ascertain the situation and use at least something resembling empathy when they are dealing with the public.

I'm sure most cops would have seen the man seizing up on the sidewalk and said "okay, follow me to the hospital. If you are lying about this I'll know."

That's all it could have taken. But I also get this cop was bound by his own departments rather rigid protocols. Perhaps his chief said "Do not violate the protocol... ever."

To me the protocols in place are more of the problem than the cop that responded to the call. We don't know how authoritative the Chief is.
 
#7,794
#7,794
Rasputin_Vol said:
Nobody would said anything because he at least was taking action instead of following a rigid procedure and passively allow a man's lif hang in the balance.
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I'm sure I'll be berated and have my integrity questioned for saying so but... I honestly don't know if he is able to differentiate between criticism/desire for legitimate accountability and blind hatred.
 
#7,795
#7,795
agent|orange said:
This is a great way to get shot if you're dealing with the wrong cop on the wrong day.
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Ever witnessed a woman giving childbirth? Wife said the pain was comparable if not worse. Plus she was bleeding in my truck, I wasn't worried about a bullet.
 
#7,796
#7,796
agent|orange said:
This is a great way to get shot if you're dealing with the wrong cop on the wrong day.
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I don't necessarily disagree but if my todler son is pulseless in the backseat then I'll take my chances. There isn't a chance that I pull over.

What you should do is call 911 and explain the situaiton and I'm thinking 99 times out of 100, once notified of the situation, the cop will give you an escort to the hospital.
 
#7,797
#7,797
volbeast33 said:
The EMT's would have had him stabilized before ever putting him in the ambulance
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After Kressin's fiancee found his inhaler, the officer called 911 and it took an ambulance six minutes to get to the scene. After paramedics arrived, police said Kressin stopped breathing and he was pronounced dead at St. Joseph's Hospital a short time later.
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So the fiance had to prove he had a condition and then they had to wait another 6 minutes.

The paramedics weren't able to stabilize him as it seems the cold air caused his lungs to seize up.

His life could have very likely been saved had the officer driven him to the hospital. However, it appears there is a department policy against a cop using his squad car in lieu of a medical emergency vehicle, regardless of circumstance.

The pessimistic side of me says there might be higher levels of corruption at play here.
 
#7,798
#7,798
Cdywolfe said:
I don't necessarily disagree but if my todler son is pulseless in the backseat then I'll take my chances. There isn't a chance that I pull over.

What you should do is call 911 and explain the situaiton and I'm thinking 99 times out of 100, once notified of the situation, the cop will give you an escort to the hospital.
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That's fine... if you think that far ahead.

The fiance in this story seemed hysterical and most people generally don't practice fantastic forethought when responding to an emergency.
 
#7,800
#7,800
agent|orange said:
- 6 minutes for the ambulance to arrive

- another 5 minutes to get to the hospital from that location

That's 11 minutes versus 5... by my math.

Given the article said his lungs collapsed due to the cold and he died at the hospital... I would say that those 6 minutes did matter.
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Bad math. If they waited for just another vehicle, then yes, your 11 minutes would apply.

However, in six minutes he was under emergency care where they started diagnosing, treating and attempting to stabilize him while transporting. Really the only difference is a minute.
 
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