To Protect and to Serve...

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#4,251
#4,251
n_huffhines said:
fyp

You can't even call this bad police work. Forget about criminal. Forget about about terminatable offense...just admit it's bad police work.
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You know as well as I do I call out things that are wrong when they are wrong. Don't even go there.

You are nothing more than a child that's throwing a tantrum when someone actually points out how very wrong you are.
 
#4,253
#4,253
n_huffhines said:
You can't even call this bad police work. Forget about criminal. Forget about about terminatable offense...just admit it's bad police work.
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Here you go...

Grand Vol said:
Of course everything I just wrote will be ignored by those that have never been in that kind of situation so I'm not sure why I just wasted my time writing it all out.
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Either provide arguments against what I wrote in that post or shut up.
 
#4,254
#4,254
n_huffhines said:
fyp

You can't even call this bad police work. Forget about criminal. Forget about about terminatable offense...just admit it's bad police work.
Click to expand...

Fret not Huff, the police will investigate themselves, and of course find no wrongdoing. Paid vacations all around.

I'll admit the time window is very small in this case. However, I thought cops were trained in hand to hand combat? If two cops can't handle one guy, rethink being a cop.
 
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#4,256
#4,256
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Fret not Huff, the police will investigate themselves, and of course find no wrongdoing. Paid vacations all around.

I'll admit the time window is very small in this case. However, I thought cops were trained in hand to hand combat? If two cops can't handle one guy, rethink being a cop.
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Yes, and this is my position. I don't get what's so controversial.
 
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#4,258
#4,258
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Fret not Huff, the police will investigate themselves, and of course find no wrongdoing. Paid vacations all around.

I'll admit the time window is very small in this case. However, I thought cops were trained in hand to hand combat? If two cops can't handle one guy, rethink being a cop.
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Have you had edged weapons defense classes?

Hint: It doesn't turn out like the movies. Someone's getting stabbed, cut or seriously injured.
 
#4,266
#4,266
n_huffhines said:
I'm just waiting for the day that you call out a bad cop for bad police work. That will be an amazing day.
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Are you kidding me?

I've done it multiple times before in this thread. When something is wrong, I have no problems pointing it out. Just like in this situation where several things were wrong that should have been done differently. But it doesn't change the fact that the police had been to that residence multiple times in the past, the man had always been compliant and never a threat yet this once they let their guard down and unfortunately had to use deadly force when he attacked. And the video clearly shows him attacking one of them.

Of course people like you would rather have dead cops so they can giggle at the "man" getting what's owed to them.

Grow...up...
 
#4,268
#4,268
Grand Vol said:
Jesus, both of you are incorrigible.

Do you at least admit I might have the first damn clue what I'm talking about?
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I'll admit you know something about police work. I'll admit there are details we don't see in the video. These are things I never challenged, so why are you freaking out about it? You're too sensitive. You're like a woman scorned hurling insults.

What I can say with confidence, regardless of the details we can't see. The shooters should not be cops. You may disagree. I hold cops to a higher standard than you do. That's all there is to it. I can't imagine a way in which they could have handled the situation worse.
 
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#4,270
#4,270
n_huffhines said:
What I can say with confidence, regardless of the details we can't see. The shooters should not be cops. You may disagree. I hold cops to a higher standard than you do. That's all there is to it. I can't imagine a way in which they could have handled the situation worse.
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I refuse to accept your judgment on police until you've actually been in those situations yourself.

You know the history of those two in particular? Have they had excessive force violations before? Have they been to this residence before? What are your credentials for actually questioning their methods?

Yeah, I can imagine a way they could have handled it worse. They could have drawn weapons at the first sight of that screwdriver and shot him right then. Thank God for the little things I guess.
 
#4,271
#4,271
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Why the name calling? As stated before, as a cop, if your first reaction is to shoot, you shouldn't be a cop.
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And yet their first reaction wasn't to shoot. It was to order him to put down the screwdriver.

And one second or less later they had to make a decision to respond to the threat when he attacked. You've taken CCW classes before I'd imagine. How long is a second in those terms when being attacked by a weapon of opportunity? You're familiar with the Tueller Drill. That standard is 21 feet. Now we've cut that to a fraction.

It's not like they marched up expecting a fight like I've seen posted before. So don't ignore the fact they were caught off guard in a situation where, historically, the man has always been compliant.
 
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#4,272
#4,272
Grand Vol said:
I refuse to accept your judgment on police until you've actually been in those situations yourself.

You know the history of those two in particular? Have they had excessive force violations before? Have they been to this residence before? What are your credentials for actually questioning their methods?

Yeah, I can imagine a way they could have handled it worse. They could have drawn weapons at the first sight of that screwdriver and shot him right then. Thank God for the little things I guess.
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Knowing the guys current mental state, I actually have a hard time accepting that what they did was really any better.
 
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#4,273
#4,273
Grand Vol said:
And yet their first reaction wasn't to shoot. It was to order him to put down the screwdriver.

And one second or less later they had to make a decision to respond to the threat when he attacked. You've taken CCW classes before I'd imagine. How long is a second in those terms when being attacked by a weapon of opportunity? You're familiar with the Tueller Drill. That standard is 21 feet. Now we've cut that to a fraction.

It's not like they marched up expecting a fight like I've seen posted before. So don't ignore the fact they were caught off guard in a situation where, historically, the man has always been compliant.
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Why were they caught off guard GV? Complacency? Wouldn't that qualify as bad police work? You have a mentally unstable man at a residence they are responding to, shouldn't they be on high alert?

Just as an aside. Yes, I've taken quite a few firearms classes. I still say, if your first instinct is to shoot, you shouldn't be a cop.

The bottom line in this is, she called the wrong people to help. Now her son is dead.
 
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#4,274
#4,274
Cdywolfe said:
Knowing the guys current mental state, I actually have a hard time accepting that what they did was really any better.
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And again, history shows that every time they showed up in the past the man was compliant.

How would you have handled the situation?
 
#4,275
#4,275
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Why were they caught off guard GV? Complacency? Wouldn't that qualify as bad police work? You have a mentally unstable man at a residence they are responding to, shouldn't they be on high alert?
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Why are you and others ignoring the fact that each time they had showed up before the man had never been a threat. And according to CNN, was "hundreds" of times. Now I doubt it was hundreds, but I'd be willing to bet it was enough to think "we've got to go here and make him take his meds again." Nothing more, nothing less.

Yet this time he showed up with a weapon and attacked the officers.

Complacency? Sure. Just not in the way you're implying. Had they gone in on high alert it might have ended differently. But I can tell you from personal experience you get called out to a particular residence enough, you know what happens and you get complacent. Is it right? No, because you should always expect the unexpected. But on the same token, they probably have done it enough times not to consider that person a threat. And if you consider the positioning of the officers, their tone, inflection, their stance and demeanor, you can see they aren't going in with hostility or anything else. There are no barked commands, no pistols drawn from the beginning. Just two random cops going to a residence that has been visited multiple times in the past and (likely) always ended with guy taking his meds and everyone going away happy.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Just as an aside. Yes, I've taken quite a few firearms classes. I still say, if your first instinct is to shoot, you shouldn't be a cop.
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And again, you have less than a second to decide to get stabbed or fight. Flee was not an option as I stated before.

Your choice.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
The bottom line in this is, she called the wrong people to help. Now her son is dead.
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The same people she had called before and completed the call without incident how may times?

Don't ignore the history here. It's very central to the argument.
 
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