Coaches Convention and more Doug Matthews

#53
#53
rexvol said:
I completely disagree. I think Spence was primed to move on from Clemson until he actually met with Phil. I think he then realized that Phil's going to keep a tight leash on the next OC. I also think Phil stated that the new OC would have very little input in the other coaching hires. Frank and Rob listened and then ran for the hills. Let's face it, our OC just got a head coaching position, so it's possible for this job to lead to bigger and better things. Why wouldnt you take it? I'll tell you why, Phil's micromanagement.
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Based on what? Alabama offered him a ton of money last year and he turned them down. He also turned down the Raiders, so what evidence do you have that he was "primed to move on from Clemson"?
 
#55
#55
the fact that he flew to Knoxville for an interview kind of tipped me off that he was thinking about moving on. Also,how much money did Bama offer? link?
 
#56
#56
holdemvol said:
Based on what? Alabama offered him a ton of money last year and he turned them down. He also turned down the Raiders, so what evidence do you have that he was "primed to move on from Clemson"?
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Evidence? Please, who needs that. These hypothetical circumstances would support his individually fabricated idea that Fulmer wont allow any new ideas on offense. Therefore, it is spoken as truth in an effort to fuel his dillusional ideas.
 
#57
#57
rexvol said:
the fact that he flew to Knoxville for an interview kind of tipped me off that he was thinking about moving on
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Again, he turned down jobs last year. Has it ever crossed your mind that he could have been using the interview as leverage for a better contract? Plenty of people interview for jobs with little intention of leaving their current postions. Bash Phil and his coaching abilities all you want, but to say that Phil scared spence off with no such evidence is borderline ridiculous.
 
#58
#58
but that post is just dripping with evidence that Bama threw tons of money at him as did the Raiders?
 
#59
#59
holdemvol said:
Again, he turned down jobs last year. Has it ever crossed your mind that he could have been using the interview as leverage for a better contract? Plenty of people interview for jobs with little intention of leaving their current postions. Bash Phil and his coaching abilities all you want, but to say that Phil scared spence off with no such evidence is borderline ridiculous.
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you saying that Bama threw a ton of money at him isnt borderline, it is ridiculous. Also using the raiders as an example of someone turning down a job is a joke. No one in their right mind would join the Raiders only to be fired with Lane in about 2 weeks.
 
#60
#60
rexvol said:
I completely disagree. I think Spence was primed to move on from Clemson until he actually met with Phil. I think he then realized that Phil's going to keep a tight leash on the next OC. I also think Phil stated that the new OC would have very little input in the other coaching hires. Frank and Rob listened and then ran for the hills. Let's face it, our OC just got a head coaching position, so it's possible for this job to lead to bigger and better things. Why wouldnt you take it? I'll tell you why, Phil's micromanagement.
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What you are saying doesn't follow. First, it seems that KB was going to be allowed to bring most of the people he wanted... I would expect and WANT UT/CPF to negotiate who the staff was rather than handing over a blank slate. Second, KB and Cig in particular are guys that CPF could NEVER reasonably expect to micromanage. He wouldn't have pursued either if that had been his intent... in fact, if he wanted someone to do OJT then TT was the ideal candidate.

I have seen that accusation about micromanagement thrown around a good bit. The only guy I've heard that in relation to is Sanders. The way that situation looked to me is that CPF gave him trust too cheaply, too soon then ended up with a mess. He probably felt he had no choice but to minimize the damage by taking hold of the reigns.

Since this is so often repeated, I'd like to know if there is anyone else that he's supposed to have domineered or any real, direct evidence that he did it to RS before he was left with absolutely no choice.

I expect a HC to have input and to express his philosophy... but it would seem that you are talking about something more than that.
 
#62
#62
rexvol said:
you saying that Bama threw a ton of money at him isnt borderline, it is ridiculous. Also using the raiders as an example of someone turning down a job is a joke. No one in their right mind would join the Raiders only to be fired with Lane in about 2 weeks.
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You done reading the link I provided yet?
 
#63
#63
I stand corrected as far as what Spence says. I find it hard to believe that Bama offered him $414,000 a year. Do you really believe that? show me where Bama reports that.
 
#64
#64
rexvol said:
I stand corrected as far as what Spence says. I find it hard to believe that Bama offered him $414,000 a year. Do you really believe that? show me where Bama reports that.
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You know as well as I do that no school is going to disclose what they offered a coach who turned them down. Do I believe it? They gave Saban $4 mil, so if they thought he was the best man for the job $400K+ would be within reason.
 
#66
#66
rexvol said:
I dont always believe everything I read. You would make George Orwell proud. "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."
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The Ministry would like to talk to you, we are at war with Eurasia today! Always have been always will be.
 
#67
#67
rexvol said:
I dont always believe everything I read. You would make George Orwell proud. "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."
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I have trouble believing that after all the links you've provided as evidence to back your claims.
 
#68
#68
rexvol said:
I dont always believe everything I read. You would make George Orwell proud. "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."
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You asked for a link and I provided it. You, on the otherhand have yet to provide any evidence to support your argument. Keep reaching buddy.
 
#70
#70
holdemvol said:
You asked for a link and I provided it. You, on the otherhand have yet to provide any evidence to support your argument. Keep reaching buddy.
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Ive never proposed this to be anything other than my humble opinion. I believe that Phil's trouble hiring an OC can directly be attributed to his "hands on" philosophy. I think my evidence is that we dont have anyone in place after offering the job to one guy twice, turned down by another to go to Cal, and Kippy balked because Phil wanted to choose his staff for him. There's my evidence, you want a link to that.
 
#71
#71
rexvol said:
Ive never proposed this to be anything other than my humble opinion. I believe that Phil's trouble hiring an OC can directly be attributed to his "hands on" philosophy. I think my evidence is that we dont have anyone in place after offering the job to one guy twice, turned down by another to go to Cal, and Kippy balked because Phil wanted to choose his staff for him. There's my evidence, you want a link to that.
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Spence has turned down others and you have no evidence that Phil "scared him off". You don't know that Cig was ever offered. Kippy got a better job, and the speculation about issues with choosing his staff was just that, speculation. As far as your "you want a link to that" comment, you were the one who asked for the link to begin with and once I provided what YOU asked for you began your spin campaign.
 
#72
#72
rexvol said:
Ive never proposed this to be anything other than my humble opinion. I believe that Phil's trouble hiring an OC can directly be attributed to his "hands on" philosophy. I think my evidence is that we dont have anyone in place after offering the job to one guy twice, turned down by another to go to Cal, and Kippy balked because Phil wanted to choose his staff for him. There's my evidence, you want a link to that.
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Yes, I would like a link providing evidence that Cignetti "turned down" an offer from Tennessee to go to Cal. He definitely accepted an offer from Cal, but I haven't read anything to suggest that Fulmer made him an offer at Tennessee.
 
#73
#73
holdemvol said:
Spence has turned down others and you have no evidence that Phil "scared him off". You don't know that Cig was ever offered. Kippy got a better job, and the speculation about issues with choosing his staff was just that, speculation. As far as your "you want a link to that" comment, you were the one who asked for the link to begin with and once I provided what YOU asked for you began your spin campaign.
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Spence turned us down twice, Cig didnt even wait to see if an offer was forthcoming, there is no way that any job which requires living in Detroit could be considered better, now I did ask for a link and you provided one, but it was still hearsay.
 
#74
#74
Jaytrain5 said:
Yes, I would like a link providing evidence that Cignetti "turned down" an offer from Tennessee to go to Cal. He definitely accepted an offer from Cal, but I haven't read anything to suggest that Fulmer made him an offer at Tennessee.
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way to come in late....it was a joke about providing a link to an opinion.
 
#75
#75
rexvol said:
Spence turned us down twice, Cig didnt even wait to see if an offer was forthcoming, there is no way that any job which requires living in Detroit could be considered better, now I did ask for a link and you provided one, but it was still hearsay.
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We can speculate all you want. How about this.......Cig never thought he was going to be a serious contender for the job so he took another offer. There, we will play it your way.
 
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