ESPN SEC Offensive Unit Ranking Average

#51
#51
Vol8188 said:
That was a RB. They have no value. Everyone in the NFL wants a franchise qb and they'd give up just about anything to get one.
Click to expand...

Now you're just being foolish 8188. Herschel Walker was viewed as one of, if not the most valuable player in the NFL at the time of the trade.
 
#52
#52
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Now you're just being foolish 8188. Herschel Walker was viewed as one of, if not the most valuable player in the NFL at the time of the trade.
Click to expand...

He's not a franchise qb. The value of a franchise qb is immeasurable. Whatever you give up for one is worth it. They're so rare and mean so much in the NFL. Having an elite Qb makes you a contender. Having an elite RB guarantees your nothing.
 
#53
#53
Vol8188 said:
He's not a franchise qb. The value of a franchise qb is immeasurable. Whatever you give up for one is worth it. They're so rare and mean so much in the NFL. Having an elite Qb makes you a contender. Having an elite RB guarantees your nothing.
Click to expand...

Archie says hey...

archie_manning_1972_11_12.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#56
#56
Vol8188 said:
That was a RB. They have no value. Everyone in the NFL wants a franchise qb and they'd give up just about anything to get one.
Click to expand...

He's right. Everyone knows it. Quit arguing for the sake of argument. Peyton, Brees, Rodgers etc. They make the difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#57
#57
chattaboogie said:
He's right. Everyone knows it. Quit arguing for the sake of argument. Peyton, Brees, Rodgers etc. They make the difference.
Click to expand...

Did you quote the wrong person? Because I'm the one arguing that a franchise Qb is far more valuable than the best offensive line in the league
 
#58
#58
Vol8188 said:
Did you quote the wrong person? Because I'm the one arguing that a franchise Qb is far more valuable than the best offensive line in the league
Click to expand...

So to be clear... you're saying you would trade 5 first round OL picks for a single first round pick of a QB. Correct?
 
#60
#60
Vol8188 said:
He's not a franchise qb. The value of a franchise qb is immeasurable. Whatever you give up for one is worth it. They're so rare and mean so much in the NFL. Having an elite Qb makes you a contender. Having an elite RB guarantees your nothing.
Click to expand...

Vol8188 said:
Did you quote the wrong person? Because I'm the one arguing that a franchise Qb is far more valuable than the best offensive line in the league
Click to expand...

IBlvNTmWrk said:
So to be clear... you're saying you would trade 5 first round OL picks for a single first round pick of a QB. Correct?
Click to expand...

Vol8188 said:
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying I wouldn't trade a proven qb for 5 proven Olinemen.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm a little confused 8188. You've clearly stated the following...

a franchise QB is "immeasurable"
whatever you give up for one is worth it
a franchise QB is "far more valuable" than the best offensive line

... and yet now you're saying you wouldn't trade 5 top OL for your franchise QB? I guess I'm not following your logic.
 
#61
#61
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I guess I'm a little confused 8188. You've clearly stated the following...

a franchise QB is "immeasurable"
whatever you give up for one is worth it
a franchise QB is "far more valuable" than the best offensive line

... and yet now you're saying you wouldn't trade 5 top OL for your franchise QB? I guess I'm not following your logic.
Click to expand...

Really? My argument is clear. a franchise qb is more important than the best offensive line in football.

I said I wouldn't trade 5 first round picks for an unknown commodity at qb. That's a different story.

I also said I wouldn't trade (as in give up) a franchise qb, for 5 Olinemen. Because the franchise qb is the most important thing
 
#63
#63
Vol8188 said:
Really? My argument is clear. a franchise qb is more important than the best offensive line in football.

I said I wouldn't trade 5 first round picks for an unknown commodity at qb. That's a different story.

I also said I wouldn't trade (as in give up) a franchise qb, for 5 Olinemen. Because the franchise qb is the most important thing
Click to expand...

I understand that 8188. But if you don't have a franchise QB on your team, and you clearly want one based on your comments, then according to your own posts you would be willing to give up your full top quality OL in a single trade for that QB. In fact, you would likely give up even more since you've stated "whatever you give up for one is worth it".
 
#65
#65
I was an early draftnik...Kiper wasn't a household name yet when the Herschel Walker trade went down and the general sentiment, after the trade was made, was the Vikings schooled the lil cocky college coach Jimmy Johnson...Draft picks were simply undervalued when placed up against proven talent. Bobby Beathard was notorious for trading next year 's first rounder for this year's second. That trade showed that a great talent evaluator could build a great team with draft picks and every multi-draft pick trade is compared to it's net result...three Super Bowl wins for the Cowboys. When Jay Cutler was traded from Denver to Chicago, the Walker trade was referenced...ridiculous... Nowhere near the amount of picks and if Cutler was a true franchise QB, it would have been a clear win for the Bears. As it turned out, it was a wash...McDaniels botched the picks and Cutler sucks. But a true franchise QB is worth a hefty effort...if you can swing it.
 
#66
#66
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I understand that 8188. But if you don't have a franchise QB on your team, and you clearly want one based on your comments, then according to your own posts you would be willing to give up your full top quality OL in a single trade for that QB. In fact, you would likely give up even more since you've stated "whatever you give up for one is worth it".
Click to expand...

Everything is easier to acquire than a championship caliber QB. Get your QB then fix everything else. Lots of people can play o line well enough to be serviceable in the NFL compared to what? 5 QBs that are real gamechangers
 
#67
#67
There's a saying in the military: amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics.

There's nothing glamorous about logistics. It's tedious, mind-numbing work. But get it right, and you win wars.

The O-Line vs QB debate is kind of like that. Fun and exciting to talk about QB play, and how they are difference makers. But they only look like "franchise QBs" when they have some serious help from their line. Boring and unglamorous as it may be, it's the line (O or D) that sets the conditions for success or failure of their more high-profile teammates.

As the old adage goes, championships are won and lost in the trenches.

One great QB is worth more than one great Lineman. But a squad of great linemen are worth more than any QB...because they'll make a mediocre QB look very good, and a very good QB look like the greatest of all time.

You may not like focusing on the line play in football, and I don't blame you. It's not nearly as exciting as following the ball, for most people. But that's where the game is being won or lost. Kinda like with logistics.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#68
#68
chattaboogie said:
Everything is easier to acquire than a championship caliber QB. Get your QB then fix everything else. Lots of people can play o line well enough to be serviceable in the NFL compared to what? 5 QBs that are real gamechangers
Click to expand...

Some of you guys are making it sound like top O Linemen are a dime a dozen in the NFL... and they're not. If I had to pick between building a team with the top OL in the league and an avg QB vs the top QB in the league and an avg OL... I would pick the top OL everyday and twice on Sundays.

An average QB in the NFL, given all day to find an open receiver and not under any pressure, will look like an All Star. Plus, an average QB in the NFL that will be accompanied with a very strong running game because of the top OL, will have far more options with the offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#69
#69
VFL-82-JP said:
There's a saying in the military: amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics.

There's nothing glamorous about logistics. It's tedious, mind-numbing work. But get it right, and you win wars.

The O-Line vs QB debate is kind of like that. Fun and exciting to talk about QB play, and how they are difference makers. But they only look like "franchise QBs" when they have some serious help from their line. Boring and unglamorous as it may be, it's the line (O or D) that sets the conditions for success or failure of their more high-profile teammates.

As the old adage goes, championships are won and lost in the trenches.

One great QB is worth more than one great Lineman. But a squad of great linemen are worth more than any QB...because they'll make a mediocre QB look very good, and a very good QB look like the greatest of all time.

You may not like focusing on the line play in football, and I don't blame you. It's not nearly as exciting as following the ball, for most people. But that's where the game is being won or lost. Kinda like with logistics.
Click to expand...

It's nice to finally see a voice of reason in this discussion. :hi:
 
#72
#72
VFL-82-JP said:
There's a saying in the military: amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics.

There's nothing glamorous about logistics. It's tedious, mind-numbing work. But get it right, and you win wars.

The O-Line vs QB debate is kind of like that. Fun and exciting to talk about QB play, and how they are difference makers. But they only look like "franchise QBs" when they have some serious help from their line. Boring and unglamorous as it may be, it's the line (O or D) that sets the conditions for success or failure of their more high-profile teammates.

As the old adage goes, championships are won and lost in the trenches.

One great QB is worth more than one great Lineman. But a squad of great linemen are worth more than any QB...because they'll make a mediocre QB look very good, and a very good QB look like the greatest of all time.

You may not like focusing on the line play in football, and I don't blame you. It's not nearly as exciting as following the ball, for most people. But that's where the game is being won or lost. Kinda like with logistics.
Click to expand...

Manning had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. He still performed great. Same as near the end of his time with the colts.

The Titans have had two outstanding offensive tackles for nearly a decade. The Browns have one of the best centers and left tackles in the league.

It hasn't worked out well for either.
 
#73
#73
One great QB is worth more than one great Lineman. But a squad of great linemen are worth more than any QB.
Click to expand...

BTW, NFL salaries back up this statement.

Top paid QB -- Romo, Dallas -- $27.7M (whether he's worth it is an entirely different discussion, don't be distracted like the dogs in "Up").

Top paid LT -- Williams, Washington -- $13.7M
Top paid RT -- Vollmer, New England -- $7.0M
Top paid Gs -- Evans & Grubbs, both New Orleans -- $11.0M + $9.6M
Top paid C -- Kalil, Carolina -- $11.8M
Combined salary of OLine: $53.1M

Those are 2015 numbers. In 2013, the average NFL QB made $3.84M. The average Offensive Lineman made $1.76M ... or $8.8M for the squad, average.

Either by top pay or by averages, monetarily an NFL QB is worth about two OLinemen.


Data sources:
- SI.com SI.com
NFL]NFL Salary Rankings | Spotrac Salary Rankings | Spotrac
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#74
#74
Vol8188 said:
Manning had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. He still performed great. Same as near the end of his time with the colts.

The Titans have had two outstanding offensive tackles for nearly a decade. The Browns have one of the best centers and left tackles in the league.

It hasn't worked out well for either.
Click to expand...

Denver's Ryan Clady is the 5th highest-paid Left Tackle in the league ($10.6M). Roughly half of all left tackles in the NFL make less than $1M/year. That's one-tenth of what Clady is paid. One-tenth. Based purely on his pay, I find it hard to believe this dude is "one of the worst in the NFL".

Oh, and by the way, was selected in the first round when he was drafted, and has been to the Pro Bowl three times. He can't be the worst in the league, can he?

----------

Chris Clark is the 17th-highest paid Right Tackle ($1.63M). So let's call him average.

----------

Louis Vasquez (who has recently switched from G to RT) was the 9th best-paid NFL Guard ($6.25M). Was selected for 2014 Pro Bowl (didn't play because of, you know, Super Bowl). Ranked #97 of the NFL Top 100 Players of 2014 (that's all positions).

----------

I could go on, but I'm lazy, and it takes effort to collect these facts. Bottom line is, this is not shaping up as "one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL." More like one of the better ones.

p.s. Here's what would happen to Peyton if he REALLY had the worst OLine in the NFL: Breaking Madden: Peyton Manning and his offensive line of 160-pound twig-people - SBNation.com

(ok that is completely tongue in cheek, ought to be a bright blue link) :)
 
#75
#75
Vol8188 said:
Manning had one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. He still performed great. Same as near the end of his time with the colts.
Click to expand...

And how many championships has he won? And how has he looked when he's face good defensive teams?

Vol8188 said:
The Titans have had two outstanding offensive tackles for nearly a decade. The Browns have one of the best centers and left tackles in the league.
Click to expand...
Great... give the Titans an outstanding Center and two outstanding Guards, and similar for the Browns... and then we can perhaps consider this point. Otherwise... it's a worthless statement relative to your position.

Vol8188 said:
It hasn't worked out well for either.
Click to expand...

You're really not helping your case with the above argument.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top