Ukraine Protests

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#9,101
#9,101
Velo Vol said:
I have no idea whether or not he aspires to extend his reign. If he does, launching a risky war with three years to go in his term is a dumb way to achieve it.



Gorby sounds a bit conflicted these days
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Gorby sounds like he's trying to rejuvanate his image in the Russian mindset. As I understand, he has been considered for "treason" charges by some in the Duma. He just sounds like he's taking a more pro-Russian hardline to save himself, quite frankly.
 
#9,105
#9,105
18+ Graphic video of dead Ukrainian soldiers.

A few things to point out about the group posting this - this is a 'fraternal order' of Spetsnaz vets that still claim to be active in other 'endeavors'. The fact they have this video they took in a Luhansk morgue means these Russians are active in Ukraine. They joke about these dead soldiers, many who look to have some desecration. Something else to point out is that this group believes American Baptist preacher Charles Stanley (for those in Atlanta area especially should know the name) is a CIA operative using Baptist churches as a means to undermine Russia and turn Russians against the "true Orthodox faith". Apparently the thinking of these groups is that Baptists are agents of the CIA and work to convert leaders to revolt. This particular group even claims the "coup" caused by the US in Kyiv was through conversion of a large group within their parliament and government. The demand all Baptists be expelled from Russia or tried for crimes against the state.

http://youtu.be/ii84ZvnJyFo
 
#9,106
#9,106
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZjbYXF6yi0[/youtube]

Latest Vice News dispatch from occupied Debaltseve.
 
#9,107
#9,107
CSpindizzy said:
18+ Graphic video of dead Ukrainian soldiers.

A few things to point out about the group posting this - this is a 'fraternal order' of Spetsnaz vets that still claim to be active in other 'endeavors'. The fact they have this video they took in a Luhansk morgue means these Russians are active in Ukraine. They joke about these dead soldiers, many who look to have some desecration. Something else to point out is that this group believes American Baptist preacher Charles Stanley (for those in Atlanta area especially should know the name) is a CIA operative using Baptist churches as a means to undermine Russia and turn Russians against the "true Orthodox faith". Apparently the thinking of these groups is that Baptists are agents of the CIA and work to convert leaders to revolt. This particular group even claims the "coup" caused by the US in Kyiv was through conversion of a large group within their parliament and government. The demand all Baptists be expelled from Russia or tried for crimes against the state.

http://youtu.be/ii84ZvnJyFo
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I believe I described this phenomenon best in my space buffer theory post when I said Russia suffers from "radical ontological paranoia."
 
#9,108
#9,108
Burhead said:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZjbYXF6yi0[/youtube]

Latest Vice News dispatch from occupied Debaltseve.
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It's clear the soldiers are repeating what they are told - the war will go on and they clearly want to keep going to Kyiv.

The people talk of being in another country and being a part of Russia - counter to the Minsk agreement. Either they have not been informed of their fate under Minsk II OR they've been told it will never be carried out.

Curious as to where the money came from all of the pension support, utilities, and food. With things going the way they are in Russia it's odd that so much free flowing handouts and infrastructure support is pouring in. Clearly Russia is handling all of this. Even in Luhansk they are reporting their utilities being tied to Russia today.
 
#9,109
#9,109
#9,110
#9,110
Speaking of that video of the dead Ukrainian servicemembers, maybe I've missed it, but are there any videos from the Ukrainian side of dead Russians/"rebels" being mistreated? Maybe there are, but I just can't recall having seen them. Seems like we get videos on a weekly basis of "rebels" mistreating prisoners or corpses or Givi beating somebody in the streets then getting awarded in Moscow.

For a side that is anti-fascist, they sure do look a lot like them.

I hate to keep bringing it up, because I know it sounds "whiny," but Ras and Pacer should hide their faces in shame. Shame shame on them and their fascist politics! Pathetic!
 
#9,111
#9,111
Rasputin_Vol said:
Interesting... so I'm sure you agree that the Croatians should arrest their citizens fighting for Kiev? Or what about the English speaking Kiev fighters? Should the US or Britain arrest them?
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Go beat on some more women, Jews, or homosexuals.

We grow tired of you and your inanity.
 
#9,112
#9,112
CSpindizzy said:
For the Putin apologists here - and pardon for not wanting to look through 9K posts to verify - but did any of you claim NATO promised not to expand? I know that is the Kremlin narrative to excuse their illegal seizure of Crimea. Just curious if that was discussed here.
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I may have mentioned the fact that it was an unwritten rule or understanding that NATO wouldn't encroach on former Warsaw Pact nations and the same is true the other way around. I have no idea why the US & NATO thought that installing a puppet govt in Kiev would fly, though.
 
#9,113
#9,113
Rasputin_Vol said:
Interesting... so I'm sure you agree that the Croatians should arrest their citizens fighting for Kiev? Or what about the English speaking Kiev fighters? Should the US or Britain arrest them?
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Joining another government's forces versus joining groups deemed terrorists? Legally, and in many countries this is a distinction. Just as Russia arrests their nationals fighting for ISIS and in areas like Chechnya, Iraq, etc. but not arrest the ones taking their T-72's across the border. See how that works?
 
#9,114
#9,114
Rasputin_Vol said:
Interesting... so I'm sure you agree that the Croatians should arrest their citizens fighting for Kiev? Or what about the English speaking Kiev fighters? Should the US or Britain arrest them?
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There is a difference between fighting alongside government troops and with illegal separatists. I have no problem with Americans wanting to fight alongside Kyiv forces at all as long as they don't commit war crimes. It is the same as an American deciding to enlist in the French Foreign Legion or an American Jew fighting in the Israeli Defense Forces, or Americans fighting alongside Kurdish or Christian militias in Iraq and Syria.
 
#9,115
#9,115
Rasputin_Vol said:
I may have mentioned the fact that it was an unwritten rule or understanding that NATO wouldn't encroach on former Warsaw Pact nations and the same is true the other way around. I have no idea why the US & NATO thought that installing a puppet govt in Kiev would fly, though.
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Probably for the same reason you thinking denying gays legal rights is a good idea. Sometimes people (i.e., Ukrainians) just do things that they think are in their best interests, whether or not it really is.
 
#9,116
#9,116
CSpindizzy said:
Joining another government's forces versus joining groups deemed terrorists? Legally, and in many countries this is a distinction. Just as Russia arrests their nationals fighting for ISIS and in areas like Chechnya, Iraq, etc. but not arrest the ones taking their T-72's across the border. See how that works?
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Just curious, but what would your position be if Assad asked for Russian or Iranian assistance (as in boots on the ground) in Syria to fight ISIS?
 
#9,118
#9,118
CSpindizzy said:
Joining another government's forces versus joining groups deemed terrorists? Legally, and in many countries this is a distinction. Just as Russia arrests their nationals fighting for ISIS and in areas like Chechnya, Iraq, etc. but not arrest the ones taking their T-72's across the border. See how that works?
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Who deemed them terrorists?
 
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#9,121
#9,121
Rasputin_Vol said:
I may have mentioned the fact that it was an unwritten rule or understanding that NATO wouldn't encroach on former Warsaw Pact nations and the same is true the other way around. I have no idea why the US & NATO thought that installing a puppet govt in Kiev would fly, though.
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Unwritten rule? Seriously? In diplomacy how does that work? Heck, with Putin even the written rules don't matter. Where did this unwritten rule come from? Putin makes it sound like there is documented proof the West stabbed Russia in the back. The whole unification of Germany discussed NATO forces not being stationed in the land formerly the GDR. Nothing else was discussed.

Still on the whole coup thing huh? Still waiting for that smoking gun from you proving this happened. Until you prove this, until anyone proves this, all you are doing is just spinning the Kremlin line.

Answer my earlier question on your politics.
 
#9,123
#9,123
Pacer92 said:
Who deemed them terrorists?
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Well, you think Kiev is a terrorist state.

Why can't the Russian side be terroristic?

You double-standard the hell out of everything.

Part of the reason why I forced you to put me on Ignore.
 
#9,124
#9,124
CSpindizzy said:
Unwritten rule? Seriously? In diplomacy how does that work? Heck, with Putin even the written rules don't matter. Where did this unwritten rule come from? Putin makes it sound like there is documented proof the West stabbed Russia in the back. The whole unification of Germany discussed NATO forces not being stationed in the land formerly the GDR. Nothing else was discussed.

Still on the whole coup thing huh? Still waiting for that smoking gun from you proving this happened. Until you prove this, until anyone proves this, all you are doing is just spinning the Kremlin line.

Answer my earlier question on your politics.
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The Nuland audio is proof. Not to mention the State department's presence there in the months and weeks leading up to the coup.
 
#9,125
#9,125
Pacer92 said:
Who deemed them terrorists?
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The nation that they fight against. I still insist the bulk are not terrorists but "freelancers" as you put it from Russia with Putin's blessing and support.

Do you support ISIS? Did you support the Chechens? Those in Dagestan? Do you support every independence movement? I want to make sure you are completely consistent. For someone who coddles fascist, authoritarian regimes I find it hard for you to also support freedom movements as well.
 
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