Ukraine Protests

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#8,202
#8,202
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you don't have any photos...
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There are plenty. What you are saying is that fact is a lie. And you are in denial. If you like, Google Russian convoy Crimea. Hard to believe so many media sources, pictures, videos are all forgeries. But again, facts mean nothing to you. You trust the side that says it is not involved but T-72B3's are just freelancing. You are telling me the best of their armor only available to Russian army just pops up in another nation with trained operators. And somehow when caught that they are actually described inaccurately as a different version. Sure. You keep cheering the side violating over and over multiple signed agreements. You really know how to pick sides.

Putin is making a claim that the US is already arming Ukraine. Pics or it didn't happen. And I really hope he has more than the 2-3 rifles they displayed from Donetsk airport battle....weapons that are readily bought at gun stores and accessible on the market. I'll be anxiously awaiting proof that somehow supposed to make me forget about Tornado-S and T-72B3's that must be available at every gun shop and pawn shop in Russia.
 
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#8,204
#8,204
CSpindizzy said:
T If you like, Google Russian convoy Crimea. Hard to believe so many media sources, pictures, videos are all forgeries.
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I just did Google that and I didn't see anything showing photos from this weekend... most of what was shown was from last year when the Russians were securing Crimea (which was regularly getting convoys before the coup because of the naval facility there I'm sure).
 
#8,205
#8,205
CSpindizzy said:
There are plenty. What you are saying is that fact is a lie. And you are in denial. If you like, Google Russian convoy Crimea. Hard to believe so many media sources, pictures, videos are all forgeries. But again, facts mean nothing to you. You trust the side that says it is not involved but T-72B3's are just freelancing. You are telling me the best of their armor only available to Russian army just pops up in another nation with trained operators. And somehow when caught that they are actually described inaccurately as a different version. Sure. You keep cheering the side violating over and over multiple signed agreements. You really know how to pick sides.
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I'm not really sure what either Ras's or Pacer's bugaboos are about whether or not Russian soldiers are in Ukraine under command of the Russian military. Both have made it fairly obvious that they think Russia justified in a military operation as a response to Western/NATO/US encroachment upon Russian territory and, Ras at least, has made it clear through his posts that he thinks Ukraine a fabricated state (although don't personally confront him about this, because he'll put you on Ignore and claim you're a liar).

The only thing I can figure is that the capacity to deny Russian troops in Ukraine under Kremlin order is another "A-ha, gotcha, you evil, lying, thieving USA!" deal for them at the moment. I can't explain it any other way. Nothing else makes sense.
 
#8,211
#8,211
Grand Vol said:
It was designed to go up against the rompin stompin Red Army back in the day and something it did very well. When used against threats like the BMP/BMD/BTR series, it works exceptionally well. And the biggest point was it could keep up with the Abrams unlike the M113 it replaced (at least in the IFV/APC role).

I have no problems with the Stryker, however, the costs of upgrading and updating everything so far has not been exactly going to plan. And a lot of flaws were identified (specifically the air transport that failed to meet the GAO requirements) that have cost serious money to replace. And the complete and utter failure of the system in Afghanistan meant another costly upgrade.

And really the job it was envisioned for has been overtaken by other designs such as the MRAP and like vehicles. And the utility purposes of the Stryker system (mortar carrier, ATG system, APC, etc) is overtaken by the flaws in it's lack of offroad capability. So really, it's not any better than the Bradley it supplemented or the M113 it replaced.
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I've had the unpleasant experience of riding in an M113 and a Bradley. I was never so glad as to get out and be back on my LPCs.
 
#8,213
#8,213
Just curious Ras....why is Putin calling on the Ukrainians to surrender in Debaltseve when a ceasefire is in effect? Why demand a surrender when the lines should be frozen? Strange that someone promoting peace and an end to this is still demanding land seizures and urging the conflict on. Why are POW's being taken when a ceasefire is in effect? With lines frozen and a ceasefire in effect it seems odd that any food, support, etc. cannot get through. Even more peculiar is the fact that OSCE cannot even get through because of attacks. A non-aligned group that is declared monitoring power according to Minsk cannot even reach this city because of endangering of life. Very peculiar for such honorable and peaceful people.
 
#8,217
#8,217
Even the Chinese mediator couldn't help but laugh at Churkin's claim that Lithuania was arming Kiev.

That was priceless.

You could tell that even Churkin was a little outdone about it. Like it was something he had been forced to say.
 
#8,219
#8,219
Reports say the General Staff has ordered the men trapped in Debaltseve to destroy their equipment and withdraw.
 
#8,220
#8,220
volprof said:
Even the Chinese mediator couldn't help but laugh at Churkin's claim that Lithuania was arming Kiev.

That was priceless.

You could tell that even Churkin was a little outdone about it. Like it was something he had been forced to say.
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The sad thing is that Churkin is made to look the fool each time we have these sessions. In true Russian character, he cares less. In these guys' minds they think they are right. They can straight face lie to your face and think nothing of it. These are the last generation of Soviet diplomats. He makes Baghdad Bob look like Metternich or Richelieu.
 
#8,221
#8,221
Burhead said:
Reports say the General Staff has ordered the men trapped in Debaltseve to destroy their equipment and withdraw.
Click to expand...

Ilovaisk 2.0

This must have been in the fine print of Minsk II. I missed the part of anyone having to basically lay down arms and withdraw to some distant line. Really pathetic the world sits back and lets this happen. Merkel and Hollande's signature and word means nothing. Putin's word never meant anything to begin with. He's already lied repeatedly.

UN charter
Geneva Convention
CFE
Budapest Memorandum
Minsk I
Minsk II

The list is growing of broken promises in agreements. Russia has intentionally violated these. Everyone else is guilty by association and witness to the fact.
 
#8,222
#8,222
CSpindizzy said:
The sad thing is that Churkin is made to look the fool each time we have these sessions. In true Russian character, he cares less. In these guys' minds they think they are right. They can straight face lie to your face and think nothing of it. These are the last generation of Soviet diplomats. He makes Baghdad Bob look like Metternich or Richelieu.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but he even started laughing. It was a very odd moment, to say the least.
 
#8,223
#8,223
CSpindizzy said:
Ilovaisk 2.0

This must have been in the fine print of Minsk II. I missed the part of anyone having to basically lay down arms and withdraw to some distant line. Really pathetic the world sits back and lets this happen. Merkel and Hollande's signature and word means nothing. Putin's word never meant anything to begin with. He's already lied repeatedly.

UN charter
Geneva Convention
CFE
Budapest Memorandum
Minsk I
Minsk II

The list is growing of broken promises in agreements. Russia has intentionally violated these. Everyone else is guilty by association and witness to the fact.
Click to expand...

The Ukrainians acknowledge they now control parts of the city and some Ukrainian soldiers have surrendered.
 
#8,225
#8,225
Putin wants to completely humiliate Poroshenko. Each day he is closer to burying him. What happens when you get a nation that panics is a fear stricken people looking for the desperate 'fix' which tends to be a loose cannon, a corrupt person, or even weaker leader. In any of those cases you will see either the country imploding OR a loss of control with battalions just fighting on their own. Either way, Putin gets what he wants - a reason to continue on and take more. He gets the excuse he is looking for. He creates the environment for implosion and then walks in to take the spoils. This situation may simmer but it is being primed for even greater loss of control.
 
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