Ukraine Protests

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#7,977
#7,977
Rasputin_Vol said:
Where did I say that or suggest that?

I of the opinion that ALL countries have their faults. Unfortunately, you have far too many people that believe that the US is different and beyond criticism. That is why anyone such as myself says anything that doesn't paint the US in a favorable light, I get the personal attacks and accusations of being a Russian commie sympathizer or whatever. I'm just having an open mind and offering a different view of the situation that doesn't paint us as the good guys. For some reason, people get upset about that.
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Would you stop with the Russian commie sympathizing nonsense? No one has said that. Stop being a big poopyhead.
 
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#7,978
#7,978
volprof said:
Would you stop with the Russian commie sympathizing nonsense? No one has said that. Stop being an *******.

And, honestly, you'd probably appreciate it, since you're a misogynist, but I can't help but picturing you painting your nails every time you post. Like, seriously, the tone in which you post, I can't help but picture you painting your nails.
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Hitting the sauce already?
 
#7,980
#7,980
Pacer92 said:
You saying this while defending our operations makes you a hypocrit. Why is it when Russia is involved in a war its aggression or unjust, but when we are involved in constant war and meddling, it's not?!
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What "operations" have I defended? Have I ever said the US is innocent and pure? I've mentioned both sides doing stupid things. As far as this particular war both sides have. But I recognize this war for what it is....Russia meddling and invading its neighbor taking advantage of a situation it helped to create. Denial of this is denial of the facts. I can very well flip your statement....will you admit of Russia's involvement in this?
 
#7,981
#7,981
Burhead said:
So tell me what the German solider was fighting for? There was heavy antisemitism within the Wehrmacht at large and especially by the OKW and OKH.
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If you think common Germans were fighting to extinguish Jews from the face of the earth then you are misinformed. Sure, some commoners knew and that grew as the war drug on, but as big of a hater Joseph Geobbels was of Jews he was not broadcasting to the German people we have the "final solution". Sure, people knew of the concentration camps, but as I've stated before, the common German, soldier and civilian, knew nothing of the holocaust until later in the war.

Most thought they were fighting for what they thought was wrongly taken from them in the treaty of Versailles, not because they supported the extermination of the Jews!
 
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#7,982
#7,982
CSpindizzy said:
What "operations" have I defended? Have I ever said the US is innocent and pure? I've mentioned both sides doing stupid things. As far as this particular war both sides have. But I recognize this war for what it is....Russia meddling and invading its neighbor taking advantage of a situation it helped to create. Denial of this is denial of the facts. I can very well flip your statement....will you admit of Russia's involvement in this?
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That is where I guess we have to disagree. When you have Victoria Nuland on tape weeks before the fall of Ukraine naming who the State Department wants to push into power, then you see John Kerry and Joe Biden after the fact plug in their friends and family into high positions in various Ukrainian energy and government organizations, then you see other foreigners being given fast-tracked visas to take cabinet positions in Ukraine... it is really hard to convince me that Russia planned and staged this series of events.
 
#7,984
#7,984
CSpindizzy said:
What "operations" have I defended? Have I ever said the US is innocent and pure? I've mentioned both sides doing stupid things. As far as this particular war both sides have. But I recognize this war for what it is....Russia meddling and invading its neighbor taking advantage of a situation it helped to create. Denial of this is denial of the facts. I can very well flip your statement....will you admit of Russia's involvement in this?
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I've admitted that numerous times. They are inviolved and rightfully so! Admit to US involvement and tell me why?! Why are we not for peace, yet for providing arms?!
 
#7,985
#7,985
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is where I guess we have to disagree. When you have Victoria Nuland on tape weeks before the fall of Ukraine naming who the State Department wants to push into power, then you see John Kerry and Joe Biden after the fact plug in their friends and family into high positions in various Ukrainian energy and government organizations, then you see other foreigners being given fast-tracked visas to take cabinet positions in Ukraine... it is really hard to convince me that Russia planned and staged this series of events.
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If you deny the facts then there is nothing left that could convince you. The evidence is there. The history is there. Putin's own words and ambitions are there. If you deny that similar things were not done by Putin there through Yanukovich prior to this you are hopeless. You ignore those put in power by him through Putin's blessings. Or the "cutrate" deal Putin made on the oil/gas before all that took place. You've proven you are one sided. You've ignored every bit of evidence against one side and lay all guilt on the other side. if what all of these people did was wrong, then you should have the same attitude towards the side you defend. If you cannot get past that no point even debating this with you any further.
 
#7,986
#7,986
CSpindizzy said:
If you deny the facts then there is nothing left that could convince you. The evidence is there. The history is there. Putin's own words and ambitions are there. If you deny that similar things were not done by Putin there through Yanukovich prior to this you are hopeless. You ignore those put in power by him through Putin's blessings. Or the "cutrate" deal Putin made on the oil/gas before all that took place. You've proven you are one sided. You've ignored every bit of evidence against one side and lay all guilt on the other side. if what all of these people did was wrong, then you should have the same attitude towards the side you defend. If you cannot get past that no point even debating this with you any further.
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You yourself know that Viktor Yanukovich was the victim of election robbery in 2004 by the US. That is my proof and example from recent history. Yankuovich was robbed of power on 2 occasions. Can this be debated?
 
#7,988
#7,988
CSpindizzy said:
If you deny the facts then there is nothing left that could convince you. The evidence is there. The history is there. Putin's own words and ambitions are there. If you deny that similar things were not done by Putin there through Yanukovich prior to this you are hopeless. You ignore those put in power by him through Putin's blessings. Or the "cutrate" deal Putin made on the oil/gas before all that took place. You've proven you are one sided. You've ignored every bit of evidence against one side and lay all guilt on the other side. if what all of these people did was wrong, then you should have the same attitude towards the side you defend. If you cannot get past that no point even debating this with you any further.
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Did Putin show any signs of "invading" Ukraine before the overthrow of Yanukovich?!

Would you want the Russians creating chaos in Puerto Rico and taking over a naval base there?! What is the difference?!
 
#7,989
#7,989
Pacer92 said:
I've admitted that numerous times. They are inviolved and rightfully so! Admit to US involvement and tell me why?! Why are we not for peace, yet for providing arms?!
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What operations have I defended?

We have tried peace. We have tried sanctions. But when you have a nation completely lying about being involved and they are warring with their neighbor and denying it, we have issues. The US and Russia signed an agreement about the sovereignty of Ukraine. We pledged to honor that. Russia has violated that and sends forces and arms to kill Ukrainians and undermine that sovereignty. Please forgive the US for AFTER THE INVASION for wanting to honor a commitment to maintaining Ukraine's sovereignty and integrity as a nation. I will defend a nation's commitment. THAT operation I will happily defend. If you think that is bad, then we disagree. You seem to want peace but defend the nation that is the source for the death and destruction in the SE. These Russians coming across with all of their equipment is responsible for entire towns being leveled and civilians being killed. Don't give me crap about peace when you are cheering on the side that has the power to stop this. Keep their pledge for Budapest and Minsk I and this would be over. We'd have peace right now. But by all means support and defend the ones killing off people, driving them off, executing POW's in violation of any convention out there, etc.

Russia is the only party here on record sending troops and weapons endlessly to the region. The US merely wants to respond and you fault them and not Russia. You claim peace but praise the ones making war. We're done here.
 
#7,990
#7,990
CSpindizzy said:
What operations have I defended?

We have tried peace. We have tried sanctions. But when you have a nation completely lying about being involved and they are warring with their neighbor and denying it, we have issues. The US and Russia signed an agreement about the sovereignty of Ukraine. We pledged to honor that. Russia has violated that and sends forces and arms to kill Ukrainians and undermine that sovereignty. Please forgive the US for AFTER THE INVASION for wanting to honor a commitment to maintaining Ukraine's sovereignty and integrity as a nation. I will defend a nation's commitment. THAT operation I will happily defend. If you think that is bad, then we disagree. You seem to want peace but defend the nation that is the source for the death and destruction in the SE. These Russians coming across with all of their equipment is responsible for entire towns being leveled and civilians being killed. Don't give me crap about peace when you are cheering on the side that has the power to stop this. Keep their pledge for Budapest and Minsk I and this would be over. We'd have peace right now. But by all means support and defend the ones killing off people, driving them off, executing POW's in violation of any convention out there, etc.

Russia is the only party here on record sending troops and weapons endlessly to the region. The US merely wants to respond and you fault them and not Russia. You claim peace but praise the ones making war. We're done here.
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Sanctions are an act of war in reality! Nothing peaceful about it...
 
#7,991
#7,991
Pacer92 said:
Did Putin show any signs of "invading" Ukraine before the overthrow of Yanukovich?!

Would you want the Russians creating chaos in Puerto Rico and taking over a naval base there?! What is the difference?!
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Well besides an assasination attempt on Yushchenko a few years back? And why would he invade when his puppet was already in power? His minions were placed by Yanukovich in control of the military and the economy. He had what he wanted. The US didn't create the chaos there. Already explained that and the evidence backs it up.

No point in the circular argument. We're done.
 
#7,992
#7,992
CSpindizzy said:
Well besides an assasination attempt on Yushchenko a few years back? And why would he invade when his puppet was already in power? His minions were placed by Yanukovich in control of the military and the economy. He had what he wanted. The US didn't create the chaos there. Already explained that and the evidence backs it up.

No point in the circular argument. We're done.
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We agree to disagree! :hi:
 
#7,993
#7,993
CSpindizzy said:
Well besides an assasination attempt on Yushchenko a few years back? And why would he invade when his puppet was already in power? His minions were placed by Yanukovich in control of the military and the economy. He had what he wanted. The US didn't create the chaos there. Already explained that and the evidence backs it up.

No point in the circular argument. We're done.
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If Yanukovich was Putin's puppet, why was he considering signing the EU trade deal that Putin was against?
 
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#7,994
#7,994
CSpindizzy said:
Well besides an assasination attempt on Yushchenko a few years back? And why would he invade when his puppet was already in power? His minions were placed by Yanukovich in control of the military and the economy. He had what he wanted. The US didn't create the chaos there. Already explained that and the evidence backs it up.

No point in the circular argument. We're done.
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But, I do want to thank you for the way you bring your point. You are passionate, which I respect, but you are respectful(mostly :)) in your responses. :hi:
 
#7,995
#7,995
red butler said:
If Yanukovich was Putin's puppet, why was he considering signing the EU trade deal that Putin was against?
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Many say he never really was considering it. This "consideration" was what threw him over the top in the election. Many Ukrainians were skeptical and thought him too pro-Russian. There always was speculation this was the ploy to finally give him victory. Keep in mind previous runs he could not quite win it. He was behind in polls up to that declaration. This swung the election in his favor. I even had a POR activist tell me this was a ploy the whole time. I asked him 6 months later and he said he was joking. But hearing this over and over behind the scenes during and after the campaign and watching his moves during this whole "flip" I have to agree with this being his plan.
 
#7,996
#7,996
CSpindizzy said:
Many say he never really was considering it. This "consideration" was what threw him over the top in the election. Many Ukrainians were skeptical and thought him too pro-Russian. There always was speculation this was the ploy to finally give him victory. Keep in mind previous runs he could not quite win it. He was behind in polls up to that declaration. This swung the election in his favor. I even had a POR activist tell me this was a ploy the whole time. I asked him 6 months later and he said he was joking. But hearing this over and over behind the scenes during and after the campaign and watching his moves during this whole "flip" I have to agree with this being his plan.
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In retrospect, was Yanukovich's decision to not join the EU the right one or the wrong one?
 
#8,000
#8,000
Pacer92 said:
If you think common Germans were fighting to extinguish Jews from the face of the earth then you are misinformed. Sure, some commoners knew and that grew as the war drug on, but as big of a hater Joseph Geobbels was of Jews he was not broadcasting to the German people we have the "final solution". Sure, people knew of the concentration camps, but as I've stated before, the common German, soldier and civilian, knew nothing of the holocaust until later in the war.

Most thought they were fighting for what they thought was wrongly taken from them in the treaty of Versailles, not because they supported the extermination of the Jews!
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Apologizing for Putin is one thing, doing so for Nazi Germany is a whole different level.

Responsibility for the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nevertheless, knowledge about at least some aspects of the Holocaust must have been very widespread among Germans. As Paul Johnson points out, the SS had 900,000 members in 1943, most of whom participated in one way or another in actions against the Jews, and the German national railways, the Reichsbahn, employed 1.2 million people, the majority of whom helped process the lines of cattle-cars packed with suffering Jews being transported eastwards, and the car-loads of clothes, shoes and other goods coming back. Many other elements of the sprawling German civil service, from the Reichsbank which received tonnes of gold from the melted dental work of dead Jews to the Ministry of Food and Agriculture which employed slave labour on German farms, participated in various ways in the pillage and killing of the Jews, and many thousands of middle and low-ranking bureaucrats must have had some awareness of what they were doing.
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During the years 1945 through 1949 polls indicated that a majority of Germans felt that Nazism was a "good idea, badly applied". In a poll conducted in the American German occupation zone, 37% replied that 'the extermination of the Jews and Poles and other non-Aryans was necessary for the security of Germans'.
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