Ukraine Protests

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#7,905
#7,905
Pacer92 said:
You're wrong! Most of the people who fought for Germany and the Soviet Union were unaware of the atrocities that their leaders acted out on. The common German soldier, and civilians too, were good people who were not racist and bigoted Jew haters. They were lied to, just like you and I everyday by our own govt.

And as far as Russians are concerned, could they help the fact they were Russians and there homeland was attacked. So, in your mind they were and still are barbarians because they defended themselves?!

Barbarians, I tell ya! Smh
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So what's the point of this debate then?
 
#7,906
#7,906
At the pace we're currently going, we ought to be able to take over the God thread as king of the Politics forum within a week or two, kind of like how NATO and the US could cut through Siberia.
 
#7,911
#7,911
red butler said:
So under the Ukrainian Constitution, a party that gets less than 5% of the vote, can expect appointments that are the equivalent of the Secretary of Defense and Attorney General? No wonder that country is so screwed up.
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The SecDef guy you referenced got the position because of being a top admiral. He actually held the position for a month before resigning. When all this was going on last year the cabinet and Rada needed to know the person in this seat was loyal to Ukraine since they were having issues with loyalty. They needed loyalty and experience. At the time he was the only person fit for the role. People like him and their politics may not be ideal but his expertise wasn't in rounding up Jews and expelling them. When you have Russian spies, corrupt oligarchs, and weasel like bureaucrats tanking the Armed Forces you have to take what you can get to keep things afloat.
 
#7,913
#7,913
Pacer92 said:
You're wrong! Most of the people who fought for Germany and the Soviet Union were unaware of the atrocities that their leaders acted out on. The common German soldier, and civilians too, were good people who were not racist and bigoted Jew haters. They were lied to, just like you and I everyday by our own govt.

And as far as Russians are concerned, could they help the fact they were Russians and there homeland was attacked. So, in your mind they were and still are barbarians because they defended themselves?!

Barbarians, I tell ya! Smh
Click to expand...

If you fought on the Eastern Front on either side you knew the atrocities. They were ongoing. And they were very public. Anyone denying knowledge of atrocities in the east was either hiding in a shack or a flat out liar. I exaggerate....there may be a few not knowing. But the 'events' were entirely too wide spread for the vast majority to not know what went on.

As for defending themselves....what the Red Army did in the Baltics, Poland, and in the Balkans....was their barbarism there excused under the notion of 'defending themselves'?
 
#7,914
#7,914
CSpindizzy said:
The SecDef guy you referenced got the position because of being a top admiral. He actually held the position for a month before resigning. When all this was going on last year the cabinet and Rada needed to know the person in this seat was loyal to Ukraine since they were having issues with loyalty. They needed loyalty and experience. At the time he was the only person fit for the role. People like him and their politics may not be ideal but his expertise wasn't in rounding up Jews and expelling them. When you have Russian spies, corrupt oligarchs, and weasel like bureaucrats tanking the Armed Forces you have to take what you can get to keep things afloat.
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That's a reasonable explanation and something to consider. Thanks
 
#7,916
#7,916
Pacer92 said:
You're wrong! Most of the people who fought for Germany and the Soviet Union were unaware of the atrocities that their leaders acted out on. The common German soldier, and civilians too, were good people who were not racist and bigoted Jew haters. They were lied to, just like you and I everyday by our own govt.
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First, there were plenty of atrocities conducted by soldiers themselves on the eastern front, both on the battlefield and against civilians.

If you are talking about the Holocaust, perhaps rank and file Germans didn't know the extent of the program, but there was plenty of racism and anti-Semitism to go around for years beforehand. Book burnings, Jewish establishments being vandalized.

You think all the good German people were oblivious while this was happening?
 
#7,917
#7,917
CSpindizzy said:
You do know these events are scripted events right? This is all through his Nashi group, his party version of the Hitler Youth. They have their camps, trainings, indoctrinations, etc. Notice their shirts matching with the backgrounds, the placards they all hold, etc. This particular event is good indoctrination for those teaching and leading in politics, economics, etc.

You a big fan of group indoctrination of the young? Young Pioneers? Hitler Youth?
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Wjhat about this 3 hour interview session from last month? More Nashi group questions? Why go thru the effort of answering mock questions for 3 hours when our politicians here in America don't even do 30 mins? Seems like if he would be exposing himself to more sound byte parsing and more opportunities for his words to be twisted the more he talks. He is a dictator, after all. He doesn't owe the people 3 hours of his life to answer questions that could give critics plenty to chew on.

Go to the 1 hr 45 min mark to see one of the canned/pre-programmed questions from the BBC reporter.


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ORHkB89vk[/youtube]
 
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#7,918
#7,918
red butler said:
That's a reasonable explanation and something to consider. Thanks
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Keep in mind that a couple in the cabinet are foreigners with distant Ukraine connections. A lot of the positions even down to the city level are revolving doors. Poroshenko is trying to 1)clean house of decades of corruption and 2)fight a war. He has to hold the country together, fight off an invasion, and find credible enough people to replace the incompetent and corrupt. And now untrustworthy. Of course some of those put in some spots are fodder for people like Putin to say "see, they have Bandera's love child running the country!" I do not envy the man for this job he has now. He's trying to be FDR during the Depression and Churchill during WWII.
 
#7,921
#7,921
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wjhat about this 3 hour interview session from last month? More Nashi group questions? Why go thru the effort of answering mock questions for 3 hours when our politicians here in America don't even do 30 mins? Seems like if he would be exposing himself to more sound byte parsing and more opportunities for his words to be twisted the more he talks. He is a dictator, after all. He doesn't owe the people 3 hours of his life to answer questions that could give critics plenty to chew on.
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Why does any authoritarian sit in front of his people for hours giving speeches and answer questions? Why does any guy in this role craft a message and image on state run television? Because this is what they do. He owes no one anything but he does this all the time. Saddam did this. Khadafi did this. Castro. Lukashenko. Words twisted? The man owns all the media. When your cronies run all the stations, how do you expect free and independent questioning of the leader?

The BBC question...pretty softball. Giving him a chance to 'clear the air of misunderstanding'. Not seeing the tough questions in anything I've watched.

And on a more personal note, are you Russian or have any direct business or family connections to Russia?
 
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#7,922
#7,922
I'm just wondering when Ras is going to post an interview that didn't come from RT or Pravda.

I mean, it's not like those are receiving funding from the Kremlin or anything...
 
#7,923
#7,923
CSpindizzy said:
Why does any authoritarian sit in front of his people for hours giving speeches and answer questions? Why does any guy in this role craft a message and image on state run television? Because this is what they do. He owes no one anything but he does this all the time. Saddam did this. Khadafi did this. Castro. Lukashenko. Words twisted? The man owns all the media. When your cronies run all the stations, how do you expect free and independent questioning of the leader?

The BBC question...pretty softball. Giving him a chance to 'clear the air of misunderstanding'. Not seeing the tough questions in anything I've watched.

And on a more personal note, are you Russian or have any direct business or family connections to Russia?
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How in the hell was the BBC reporter's question a softball? He came out and blamed Putin for the war in Ukraine!
 
#7,924
#7,924
Grand Vol said:
I'm just wondering when Ras is going to post an interview that didn't come from RT or Pravda.

I mean, it's not like those are receiving funding from the Kremlin or anything...
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I attempted to but most of them didn't have the English translator.

And where it comes from is besides the point if you are getting the words directly from the horses mouth.

You can watch the interview and judge if this is a scripted event or not.
 
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