Ukraine Protests

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#7,876
#7,876
Pacer92 said:
I guess the same reason Jews, Africans, Muslims fought in the Nazi SS during WW2.....desperation!
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Desperation? No Jews in Ukraine are being rounded up and exterminated. Please elaborate on this lie. Where is the desperation? Compulsion? Why would any Jew voluntarily join so called Nazi groups and die fighting for Ukraine? This whole Nazi nonsense is quite pathetic. You believe this propaganda though don't you?

Let's take a look at your side though. I've already commented on Zakarchenko's statement. Any response to his statement? Or do the Russians on that side have a desperation to be anti-Semitic? Let's look at some others involved here and see their ultranationalist, neo-Nazi ties. I guess this is all lies and Western propaganda as well? Hard to fake their own words. Enough of this around on the web to dispel your argument that none of this is true.

Russian mercenaries in the Donbas - Ukrainian Winnipeg
 
#7,877
#7,877
Pacer92 said:
I guess the same reason Jews, Africans, Muslims fought in the Nazi SS during WW2.....desperation!
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Lots of Jews in the S.S., eh?


Burhead said:
However, I can't remember where I read or saw this, the Right Sector battalion refused to become part of either agreement so who knows what their status is.
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Wondering how many fighters that guy speaks for? Or another case of RT distorting something out of proportion.
 
#7,878
#7,878
@Conflict_Report 22s22 seconds ago

"With Russia and Putin any agreement is impossible. They will never stick to it." - Yarosh

He does have a point though.
 
#7,880
#7,880
Velo Vol said:
Lots of Jews in the S.S., eh?




Wondering how many fighters that guy speaks for? Or another case of RT distorting something out of proportion.
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I've tried to researching it but haven't came across any material on their battalion. Wikipedia has a good list of the other volunteer units if you're interested in researching them. The Donbass and Azov units are probably the best known to the media.
 
#7,883
#7,883
CSpindizzy said:
How are neo-Nazis letting Jews in their group? It really is odd that Nazis would allow Jews to join their units. Maybe they are just Nazis but not anti-Semitic? A little different from the anti-Semite leader of the DNR. Zakarchenko is not a fan of "miserable Jews". But he's one of your heroes in this right?
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I find it hard to believe that you know so much about Ukraine, but you don't know there is a Nazi party in Ukraine. It's called the Svoboda party. The way I understand it, they are a minority party (<5%). Interestingly though, they were appointed to 6 high level cabinet positions last year including Secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee.
 
#7,884
#7,884
red butler said:
I find it hard to believe that you know so much about Ukraine, but you don't know there is a Nazi party in Ukraine. It's called the Svoboda party. The way I understand it, they are a minority party (<5%). Interestingly though, they were appointed to 6 high level cabinet positions last year including Secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee.
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Did I say there was no Nazi party? We were talking about Yarosh. He's actually distanced himself from Svoboda. And many Jews are members of the Right Sector and their units fighting in the field. Just pointing that out. The Russians and their minions have taken certain groups and painted the whole Ukrainian government as Nazi, fascist, etc. I just pointed to an example of where a group labeled Nazi has many Jews willingly fighting and dying under its banner. And then I asked Pacer his thought on the actual head of the DNR making his anti-Semitic comment. Not expecting a reply on that. Or the link I posted with those in the eastern areas on the Russian side and their Nazi obsession. Again, not expecting Pacer or Ras to comment on that either. They would rather turn the other cheek and talk about the other side instead.

As for being appointed, by Ukrainian constitution if the party wins a certain percentage they get roles. And if memory serves me correctly, those in top positions were dismissed/resigned from their posts. They may still "occupy" the seats until new elections though.
 
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#7,886
#7,886
This whole "did you fight for the Nazis or did you not?" thing is silly. Whether you fought for the Nazis or the Soviets on the Eastern Front, your approach to human life (and to Jews) was probably exactly the same.

Who gives a hoot.

All the same to me.
 
#7,887
#7,887
Pacer92 said:
Excuse me! Same side with Germany....I've slept a few times since reading this..

The Jews who fought for Hitler: 'We did not help the Germans. We had a common enemy' - Telegraph

Another..

Hitler's Jewish Soldiers
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Here's the overview:

As Rigg fully documents for the first time, a great many of these men did not even consider themselves Jewish and had embraced the military as a way of life and as devoted patriots eager to serve a revived German nation. In turn, they had been embraced by the Wehrmacht, which prior to Hitler had given little thought to the "race" of these men but which was now forced to look deeply into the ancestry of its soldiers.

The process of investigation and removal, however, was marred by a highly inconsistent application of Nazi law. Numerous "exemptions" were made in order to allow a soldier to stay within the ranks or to spare a soldier's parent, spouse, or other relative from incarceration or far worse. (Hitler's own signature can be found on many of these "exemption" orders.) But as the war dragged on, Nazi politics came to trump military logic, even in the face of the Wehrmacht's growing manpower needs, closing legal loopholes and making it virtually impossible for these soldiers to escape the fate of millions of other victims of the Third Reich
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.

Bolded portions are applicable.
 
#7,889
#7,889
CSpindizzy said:
Did I say there was no Nazi party? We were talking about Yarosh. He's actually distanced himself from Svoboda. And many Jews are members of the Right Sector and their units fighting in the field. Just pointing that out. The Russians and their minions have taken certain groups and painted the whole Ukrainian government as Nazi, fascist, etc. I just pointed to an example of where a group labeled Nazi has many Jews willingly fighting and dying under its banner. And then I asked Pacer his thought on the actual head of the DNR making his anti-Semitic comment. Not expecting a reply on that. Or the link I posted with those in the eastern areas on the Russian side and their Nazi obsession. Again, not expecting Pacer or Ras to comment on that either. They would rather turn the other cheek and talk about the other side instead.

As for being appointed, by Ukrainian constitution if the party wins a certain percentage they get roles. And if memory serves me correctly, those in top positions were dismissed/resigned from their posts. They may still "occupy" the seats until new elections though.
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You certainly made it sound like there was no Nazi party in Ukraine. Nobody said they were anti-semite... you brought that up. And no we weren't talking about Yarosh, but since you did, it appears he has rejected the Minsk II agreement and reserves the right 'to continue war'.
 
#7,891
#7,891
CSpindizzy said:
As for being appointed, by Ukrainian constitution if the party wins a certain percentage they get roles. And if memory serves me correctly, those in top positions were dismissed/resigned from their posts. They may still "occupy" the seats until new elections though.
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So under the Ukrainian Constitution, a party that gets less than 5% of the vote, can expect appointments that are the equivalent of the Secretary of Defense and Attorney General? No wonder that country is so screwed up.
 
#7,892
#7,892
red butler said:
I find it hard to believe that you know so much about Ukraine, but you don't know there is a Nazi party in Ukraine. It's called the Svoboda party. The way I understand it, they are a minority party (<5%). Interestingly though, they were appointed to 6 high level cabinet positions last year including Secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee.
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Andriy Parubiy was the only nationalist appointed after the revolution. He has also been replaced for that matter. Not to mention he left the Social-National Party in 2004.
 
#7,893
#7,893
CSpindizzy said:
Red - we were talking about Yarosh. Well, Pacer brought him up. And I followed up. The claim was neo-Nazi in a further comment. And again, I went with that claim.
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Sorry, I don't read RT links out of principle so I didn't notice Yarosh was brought up.
 
#7,894
#7,894
Pacer92 said:
This doesn't take away that Jews, blacks and Muslims all fought for Germany in WW2

I misspoke about the SS..
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Some Jews did. I can't speak to blacks or Muslims since there isn't a lot of reference in the matter (I'm sure you'll prove your point if needed)

A lot of soldiers didn't fight for Hitler or the Nazi party, but for Germany. And that would include Jews that denied their religion as stated in the overview. It's one thing for the Nazis to round up the openly Jewish members of Germany and the lands they conquered and another entirely for them to finally get around to identifying those that had Jewish lines and were taken care of during the final solution.

But it doesn't make your point that the Jews were fighting for the Nazi Party. Many people would fight for their country because they believed in it. And many, I'd say a great many, people in Germany didn't know about the concentration camps. Even Traudl Junge claimed she had no knowledge of the ongoing extermination and she was Hitler's personal secretary. Perhaps plausible, perhaps not.
 
#7,895
#7,895
So we know all of this comes from Russia but because Russia has not officially said "we invaded" we will just keep playing footsie with the terminology. Again, the logic of the argument astounds me. I guess every Russian has a Smersh, BTR, BMP, T-72BA, Grads, and all their gear sitting in their driveways. Either the black market in Russia is stacked with brand new Russian gear to sneak right under Putin's nose or there is some sort of Game of War style factory in Ukraine that you can just tap and all of this equipment pours out of it. The fact that people believe Putin has not ordained all of this equipment and soldiers just flowing across the border astounds me.

OSCE chief Zannier says troops and weapons flow from Russia into Ukraine
 
#7,896
#7,896
volprof said:
This whole "did you fight for the Nazis or did you not?" thing is silly. Whether you fought for the Nazis or the Soviets on the Eastern Front, your approach to human life (and to Jews) was probably exactly the same.

Who gives a hoot.

All the same to me.
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You're wrong! Most of the people who fought for Germany and the Soviet Union were unaware of the atrocities that their leaders acted out on. The common German soldier, and civilians too, were good people who were not racist and bigoted Jew haters. They were lied to, just like you and I everyday by our own govt.

And as far as Russians are concerned, could they help the fact they were Russians and there homeland was attacked. So, in your mind they were and still are barbarians because they defended themselves?!

Barbarians, I tell ya! Smh
 
#7,898
#7,898
#7,899
#7,899
Grand Vol said:
Some Jews did. I can't speak to blacks or Muslims since there isn't a lot of reference in the matter (I'm sure you'll prove your point if needed)

A lot of soldiers didn't fight for Hitler or the Nazi party, but for Germany. And that would include Jews that denied their religion as stated in the overview. It's one thing for the Nazis to round up the openly Jewish members of Germany and the lands they conquered and another entirely for them to finally get around to identifying those that had Jewish lines and were taken care of during the final solution.

But it doesn't make your point that the Jews were fighting for the Nazi Party. Many people would fight for their country because they believed in it. And many, I'd say a great many, people in Germany didn't know about the concentration camps. Even Traudl Junge claimed she had no knowledge of the ongoing extermination and she was Hitler's personal secretary. Perhaps plausible, perhaps not.
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Plus most of the foreign volunteers in the Heer and Waffen-SS actually signed more to fight communism than out of support for Hitler.
 
#7,900
#7,900
Pacer92 said:
Most of the people who fought for Germany and the Soviet Union were unaware of the atrocities that their leaders acted out on. The common German soldier, and civilians too, were good people who were not racist and bigoted Jew haters. They were lied to, just like you and I everyday by our own govt.

And as far as Russians are concerned, could they help the fact they were Russians and there homeland was attacked. So, in your mind they were and still are barbarians because they defended themselves?!

Barbarians, I tell ya! Smh
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Exactly.

P.S. Crack open a decent history book sometime.
 
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