Ukraine Protests

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#7,476
#7,476
CSpindizzy said:
NATO missiles? Which missiles? Poland and the Baltics are screaming for the big stuff. No one has the grapefruits to oblige. The US sends a unit or two here and there to train Baltic forces. Nothing of a deterrent level. You have to be completely delusional to think NATO has made a significant upping of forces to be a legit threat. UK is completely downsizing. France? Nevermind. Germany? Nothing significant. Every major NATO nation has cut the budget. Right now air patrols merely guarding their own airspace is as threatening as it gets. Putting nuclear subs off the coast of several nations as well as heavy nuclear bombers? I've yet to see us park subs in the eastern Baltic. Where are the B-52's or anything else for that matter flying off Murmansk, Vladivostok, etc? Has Obama announced throwing out nuclear armament agreements and upping his nuclear forces? Putin has.

Facts simply show who the war monger is here if we are applying labels. To somehow call Obama the aggressor here is laughable at best. Putin invades his neighbors. Obama lets his neighbors invade him. Big difference.
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What's laughable is your refusal to admit NATO expansion toward Russia. Where has Russia expanded it's borders outside of Crimea since Putin took over?
 
#7,479
#7,479
CSpindizzy said:
Wait. NATO is fracturing? In my best Jon Stewart impression let me ask you if they are so fractured and are stumbling over decisions on intervention where is the threat? where is Putin's legitimacy in acting in defense? The dynamic is a little off here. We invest billions to overthrow a country's leader. We somehow support continued oppression of a minority group. But we allow a neighbor to go in and invade and undermine the leader we propped up. And somehow we are a threat to Russia when we are slashing budgets and cannot even tie our own shoes deciding what to do next. For all this effort to stage a coup to get our puppet in there we sure are doing little and tripping over ourselves to protect that little investment. Methinks something is off in this logic and way of thinking.
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You know, that's a good point. If one side wants to claim that NATO is threatening Russia, yet that the alliance is weakening at the same time, then what exactly is that side saying? It's either one or the other. Can't have it both ways to fit tailored narratives, whichever narrative happens to be most convenient at the time.
 
#7,481
#7,481
Pacer92 said:
I'm in favor of Russia defending itself..
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So you're in favor of a Russian preemptive strike. Okay, fair enough.

Are you in favor of a Russian preemptive nuclear strike? If so, why? If not, why? If so, then what targets would you consider legitimate nuclear targets for the Russian Federation to hit?
 
#7,484
#7,484
CSpindizzy said:
From? What nation on earth wants Russia? Please show me evidence of some nation that wants to invade and seize such a prize....
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For a nation as big as it is, most of Russia is basically an uninhabitable, useless dump. But, it does have lots of oil and mineral resources. Lumber. Plus, it leads the world in snow deposits.
 
#7,485
#7,485
Pacer92 said:
What's laughable is your refusal to admit NATO expansion toward Russia. Where has Russia expanded it's borders outside of Crimea since Putin took over?
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This is a defensive alliance. Considering the history of the nations on Russia's border that are part of NATO, I'd be inclined if I were them to seek a defensive agreement. But with this "expansion" please give me tangible proof that within just the Baltics there is enough of a threat to Russia itself it would see the need for defending itself? Even being a member of NATO, Latvia would fall within one day. Estonia as well. I beg you to give me evidence that Russia is threatened by anything NATO has in these nations.
 
#7,487
#7,487
Pacer92 said:
If you think that Russia is a vast wasteland that nobody wants then I just lost respect for you.
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You are as bad as Ras. Did I say wasteland? I just asked a simple question. What nation on earth would want to invade it to gain the prize? Right now China would be the only one I can think of. But they are getting what they want out of Russia without war. Putin has prostituted Russia out to Beijing without a shot needing to be fired. No nation would want to deal with that fight. Try sticking with the words actually used.
 
#7,488
#7,488
volprof said:
So you're in favor of a Russian preemptive strike. Okay, fair enough.

Are you in favor of a Russian preemptive nuclear strike? If so, why? If not, why? If so, then what targets would you consider legitimate nuclear targets for the Russian Federation to hit?
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I'm not condoning nuclear warfare, but if NATO and the US do not back off, all bets are off! I don't think either country is irrational enough to get to that point.

Answer this.....how does it affect the US, whether Ukraine is led by a pro-Russian or pro-us govt??
 
#7,489
#7,489
Pacer92 said:
I'm not condoning nuclear warfare, but if NATO and the US do not back off, all bets are off! I don't think either country is irrational enough to get to that point.
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So you do support a nuclear option. What, in your opinion would be justification for Russia to resort to this option in relation to NATO.

[/QUOTE]Answer this.....how does it affect the US, whether Ukraine is led by a pro-Russian or pro-us govt??[/QUOTE]

It doesn't. It's also not Russia's right to determine whether or not a country should align with it or the West.
 
#7,490
#7,490
CSpindizzy said:
Putin and those closest to him have higher aspirations. The creeping effect will continue. Bush turned a blind eye in the Caucasus. Putin got what he wanted there. Transnistria was a gain but is disconnected. Pointless to hold that unless you had higher intentions of connecting it. The Baltics are ripe. Estonia and Latvia have very high concentration of ethic Russians. Groups within those two have already stirred. As much as I am not a Zbigniew fan I think he is on to something here.

Zbigniew Brzezinski Putin seizes Riga Tallinn | Video | C-SPAN.org

I think someone already mentioned Alexander Dugin. Read up on him. Seeing what Russia is doing with Greece also plays into this. I said before he will undermine the EU. He is doing so with Greece. Also with Serbia, Hungary, and Le Pen in France and Pegida in Germany. Not to sound nutty but Putin was a big disciple of Yuri Andropov, the master of agitprop and Active Measures. The guy knows his history and knows using nations against themselves. He's smart enough to wave nukes around when he needs to but is smart enough NOT to actually use them. It would cost him what he's working to achieve. His ego could not handle that. But he will push until he gets popped in the nose.
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I believe it was Latvia where the security services have already launched a few raids on people circulating a map calling for the secession of an ethnic Russian republic.
 
#7,491
#7,491
Pacer92 said:
Answer this.....how does it affect the US, whether Ukraine is led by a pro-Russian or pro-us govt??
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You will get the same answer as before. We fought 2 WW over there so we have the right to have a say in Europe's affairs.

Yet when it comes to the affairs of countries on Russia's border that may pose a threat to them, all you will hear is crickets.
 
#7,492
#7,492
@MolotovFlicker · 7m 7 minutes ago

House lawmakers have unveiled a bipartisan bill that would provide $1 billion for DOD to train & provide lethal weaponry Ukrainian forces.
 
#7,493
#7,493
Rasputin_Vol said:
You will get the same answer as before. We fought 2 WW over there so we have the right to have a say in Europe's affairs.

Yet when it comes to the affairs of countries on Russia's border that may pose a threat to them, all you will hear is crickets.
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They pose no threats to Russia except to make Putin fear that seeing a successful pro-Western democracy could cause the people of Russia to throw him and his thugs out.
 
#7,494
#7,494
Rasputin_Vol said:
You will get the same answer as before. We fought 2 WW over there so we have the right to have a say in Europe's affairs.

Yet when it comes to the affairs of countries on Russia's border that may pose a threat to them, all you will hear is crickets.
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Maybe if you'd take me off of Ignore, you would see that my post said nothing of the sort.

You're on a roll today, buddy. I don't think you've interjected correctly once today, although you've tried numerous times.
 
#7,495
#7,495
Burhead said:
I believe it was Latvia where the security services have already launched a few raids on people circulating a map calling for the secession of an ethnic Russian republic.
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Yes. Money is coming across the border to pay for some "political groups" that have already begun some agitation. Riga's mayor who is ethnic Russian has actually stirred up issues as well. I can tell you for a fact if this happens in Latvia there will be a more violent outcome. A huge chunk of their population flat out hates Russia and anything to do with it.
 
#7,496
#7,496
Burhead said:
@MolotovFlicker · 7m 7 minutes ago

House lawmakers have unveiled a bipartisan bill that would provide $1 billion for DOD to train & provide lethal weaponry Ukrainian forces.
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I still don't think it's a good idea. Russia cares about the Donbass much more than we do. I know the international order of territorial sovereignty is a thing that needs to be taken very, very seriously. Otherwise, you authorize willy-nilly, like in previous eras. But I say just let them have it. Not worth any American lives.

Now, if Putin would try to roll across all of Ukraine, or take more than the Donbass, I would be on full board. But we've just not seen that yet.
 
#7,497
#7,497
CSpindizzy said:
Yes. Money is coming across the border to pay for some "political groups" that have already begun some agitation. Riga's mayor who is ethnic Russian has actually stirred up issues as well. I can tell you for a fact if this happens in Latvia there will be a more violent outcome. A huge chunk of their population flat out hates Russia and anything to do with it.
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LSM / Three out of five men ready to defend Latvia / Eng.lsm.lv

Interesting poll numbers. Only 41.2% of Russian Latvians say they would pick up arms to protect the country. Whereas 67% of ethnic Latvians would. Don't they have a holiday celebrating the SS Latvian Legion where veterans still march?
 
#7,498
#7,498
Pacer92 said:
Answer this.....how does it affect the US, whether Ukraine is led by a pro-Russian or pro-us govt??
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It really didn't matter. We dealt with all previous leaders accordingly. Where things changed was when a leader turned on his people and Russia licked its chops to make a move on a nation it pledged to respect its sovereignty. We also pledged to respect that - hence why we are a little disturbed over another pledging party invading said nation. You see, here's the difference. We've dealt with leaders looking both ways. Russia refuses to deal with western facing leadership. They try to poison, if not kill them. They pretty much blackmailed Ukraine to turn to them. When that did not pan out they decided to throw out agreements they've signed and invade. Even after that they still seem to enjoy signing agreements and throwing them out.

I know you are really trying hard to make the US out to be the villain and Russia to be the savior, but to date only one nation has tried assassination, blackmail, extortion, and invasion. The US on the other hand just stumbles and bumbles. Hard to be a threat when that is your action compared to the other guy.
 
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#7,499
#7,499
Burhead said:
They pose no threats to Russia except to make Putin fear that seeing a successful pro-Western democracy could cause the people of Russia to throw him and his thugs out.
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This has done nothing but cause the people of Russia to see who the aggressor is. It's not working!!! Russians by the thousands will come into novarussyia to defend ethnic Russians.

You have no clue about Putin except what you read in the Russophobic MSM. He's not a Merkel! He's not a Cameron! He's not a Komorowski! He's nobody's lap dog!

If you were Russian you'd be proud he was your leader...
 
#7,500
#7,500
Burhead said:
LSM / Three out of five men ready to defend Latvia / Eng.lsm.lv

Interesting poll numbers. Only 41.2% of Russian Latvians say they would pick up arms to protect the country. Whereas 67% of ethnic Latvians would. Don't they have a holiday celebrating the SS Latvian Legion where veterans still march?
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Latvian Legion Day still is celebrated but it is no longer an official holiday.

Celebrations to commemorate the end of WWII are usually another hostile period. Ethnic Latvians and Russians pick different days. Russians go with the Soviet holiday commemorating liberation by the USSR. Latvians don't really think highly of that 'liberation'.
 
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