Ukraine Protests

[LouderVol]

It would take a one sided monitoring - basically only one side allowed to track and no outside monitors allowed in. Wait. That happened somewhere else....

lol

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Completely understood. No offense taken.

All we could do is attempt to contact people by text to vote and then monitor results as they came in. We merely took numbers that were handwritten on their election commission walls and entered them in to be viewed on a website for pretty much any group to monitor the results. Parties could monitor this in real time and then contest if need be. Nothing fancy. With what they had it could not be any more innovative. With party monitors at the ballot boxes it would have been difficult to pull off rigging. It would take a one sided monitoring - basically only one side allowed to track and no outside monitors allowed in. Wait. That happened somewhere else....

If your private company didn't get funding from USAid, where did they get their funding from? And why Ukraine? In 2004?

 

[Velo Vol]

he Ukrainian lawmaker in the video I posted said TechCamp had 300 operatives scattered throughout the country, not to mention the other organizations in Ukraine.

LOL. Earlier I posted a video made at one of these TechCamps. A bunch of journalists trying to learn about technology.

 

[CSpindizzy]

he Ukrainian lawmaker in the video I posted said TechCamp had 300 operatives scattered throughout the country, not to mention the other organizations in Ukraine.

Sounds like your beef should be with the Ukrainian lawmaker for saying such things, not aimed at me for reporting what he said.

My beef is with you for making stupid claims about me and saying I said certain things when I didn't. My commentary about this clown is an add-on. He might as well have claimed the Red Cross was plotting to overthrow the government. TechCamp being a means of overthrowing the government is ridiculous. Again, this guy follows Putin's path of kicking all foreign groups out because of fear they will overthrow him. This includes Mormons. If only guys in white shirts on bikes could overthrow Putin.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

My beef is with you for making stupid claims about me and saying I said certain things when I didn't.

My bad. You did say you didn't get any of the $5 billion that Victoria Nuland was speaking about.

My apologies. Are we cool now?

 

[Velo Vol]

Problem is that Poroshenko could easily be forced out if Russians keep winning in the east. Our non-action could potentially cause his fall and his replacement may not be as productive/successful.

Are you in favour of America shipping weapons for the war?

 

[Velo Vol]

This is good. We've actually learned something today rather than re-debating Kremlin talking points.

 

[CSpindizzy]

If your private company didn't get funding from USAid, where did they get their funding from? And why Ukraine? In 2004?

Take the time to read the posts. I've answered already. Why Ukraine? Because our company had the means to provide the services needed. In 2004? Yes because our clients had the need at that time and the money. We've done further work there and in other countries. Maybe we should do some work in Cuba and Venezuela.

 

[Burhead]

Here some graphics for people saying NATO wants war with Russia:

So tell me how NATO is preparing for war?

 

[CSpindizzy]

My bad. You did say you didn't get any of the $5 billion that Victoria Nuland was speaking about.

My apologies. Are we cool now?

Cool as long as my words are not mangled and/or taken out of context. And not implied for being some government tool, agent, or biased propaganda spinner on someone's payroll with a bigger agenda. I'd be even more cool if your one sidedness was acknowledged as well. You've been carrying one side and criticizing others for doing the same. I don't mind a lively debate. But stick with what was said and have no problem admitting issues by all sides.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Are you in favour of America shipping weapons for the war?

Logistically, they need weapons. Most would need to be eastern European origins just for existing compatibility. Some things could come from us with no issues. I think training will have to be applied. And I think we attach strings to continued reforms, etc. But as I said earlier, their issue is manpower. Maybe with the news of new weapons volunteers will pour out of the woodwork. We still will have to turn the screws on Russia. Putin will not use nukes but will keep threatening this just to scare people. The man is bat crazy but would not risk ending his revived empire over this. He will want to bleed this out. I think if we can give the means to keep it ground based (no aviation) and allow the means to fight back and destroy the incoming armor the cost gets high. But we cannot be anywhere in the eastern half of the country. If anything we need to use someone like Poland as a proxy for delivery and training.

It's a complex situation. And no action on the table is a "great" action. But right now the long game is what needs to be considered. Sitting back and doing nothing will cause even greater problems. Russia is on the edge of the cliff. Putin failed at taking Russia beyond being oil based. The means of pumping and shipping oil were with western parts that he cannot get. The clock is running and he risks putting Russia in the Stone Age.

 

[CSpindizzy]

So tell me how NATO is preparing for war?

Bingo. The evidence is not there. This whole "NATO is a warmongering group trying to steal Russia" is tripe. But unfortunately the only listening audience is within Russia. The people believe this nonsense because it is fed to them on their state owned media. The sad thing is that Kyiv is labeled fascist when Moscow has more a fascist identity than anything. Goebbels would have a tingle up his leg over how Putin has pulled off this spin. He makes any of what we have here (for the people always talking about our American propaganda networks) look like Baghdad Bob.

 

[Pacer92]

Here some graphics for people saying NATO wants war with Russia:

So tell me how NATO is preparing for war?

By expanding 3 times into 11 countries since 1990. Not to mention all of the countries are far more eastward of the countries in your photos, two bordering Russia.

Why station troops and missiles in Western Europe when you can put them on Russia's front porch.

You just dont get it...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So tell me how NATO is preparing for war?

You're comparing the height of the Cold War to today... obviously, there is going to be a difference. That doesn't mean that there isn't an increase in sentiment in the West that we need to have more of a presence.

 

[LouderVol]

Logistically, they need weapons. Most would need to be eastern European origins just for existing compatibility. Some things could come from us with no issues. I think training will have to be applied. And I think we attach strings to continued reforms, etc. But as I said earlier, their issue is manpower. Maybe with the news of new weapons volunteers will pour out of the woodwork. We still will have to turn the screws on Russia. Putin will not use nukes but will keep threatening this just to scare people. The man is bat crazy but would not risk ending his revived empire over this. He will want to bleed this out. I think if we can give the means to keep it ground based (no aviation) and allow the means to fight back and destroy the incoming armor the cost gets high. But we cannot be anywhere in the eastern half of the country. If anything we need to use someone like Poland as a proxy for delivery and training.

It's a complex situation. And no action on the table is a "great" action. But right now the long game is what needs to be considered. Sitting back and doing nothing will cause even greater problems. Russia is on the edge of the cliff. Putin failed at taking Russia beyond being oil based. The means of pumping and shipping oil were with western parts that he cannot get. The clock is running and he risks putting Russia in the Stone Age.

if Putin gets his way in the east without a huge escalation, basically if stuff stays as is, do you think he stops there? or are we looking at similar circumstances in a few years elsewhere?

 

[volprof]

Bingo. The evidence is not there. This whole "NATO is a warmongering group trying to steal Russia" is tripe. But unfortunately the only listening audience is within Russia. The people believe this nonsense because it is fed to them on their state owned media. The sad thing is that Kyiv is labeled fascist when Moscow has more a fascist identity than anything. Goebbels would have a tingle up his leg over how Putin has pulled off this spin. He makes any of what we have here (for the people always talking about our American propaganda networks) look like Baghdad Bob.

It's like God came down and blessed this thread with you.

 

[Burhead]

By expanding 3 times into 11 countries since 1990. Not to mention all of the countries are far more eastward of the countries in your photos, two bordering Russia.

Why station troops and missiles in Western Europe when you can put them on Russia's front porch.

You just dont get it...

You're comparing the height of the Cold War to today... obviously, there is going to be a difference. That doesn't mean that there isn't an increase in sentiment in the West that we need to have more of a presence.

What about the fact Europe is slashing defense budgets and Russia is expanding there's?

 

[volprof]

What about the fact Europe is slashing defense budgets and Russia is expanding there's?

Sounds to me like someone is getting ready for a push westward.

 

[Pacer92]

What about the fact Europe is slashing defense budgets and Russia is expanding there's?

With NATO missiles being ever expanded towards Russia's borders, isolating sanctions to kill the Russian economy and most of the world media spewing Russian hate on a daily basis, why wouldn't they?

They can see the writing on the wall....sorry you can't..

 

[CSpindizzy]

if Putin gets his way in the east without a huge escalation, basically if stuff stays as is, do you think he stops there? or are we looking at similar circumstances in a few years elsewhere?

Putin and those closest to him have higher aspirations. The creeping effect will continue. Bush turned a blind eye in the Caucasus. Putin got what he wanted there. Transnistria was a gain but is disconnected. Pointless to hold that unless you had higher intentions of connecting it. The Baltics are ripe. Estonia and Latvia have very high concentration of ethic Russians. Groups within those two have already stirred. As much as I am not a Zbigniew fan I think he is on to something here.

Zbigniew Brzezinski Putin seizes Riga Tallinn | Video | C-SPAN.org

I think someone already mentioned Alexander Dugin. Read up on him. Seeing what Russia is doing with Greece also plays into this. I said before he will undermine the EU. He is doing so with Greece. Also with Serbia, Hungary, and Le Pen in France and Pegida in Germany. Not to sound nutty but Putin was a big disciple of Yuri Andropov, the master of agitprop and Active Measures. The guy knows his history and knows using nations against themselves. He's smart enough to wave nukes around when he needs to but is smart enough NOT to actually use them. It would cost him what he's working to achieve. His ego could not handle that. But he will push until he gets popped in the nose.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

if Putin gets his way in the east without a huge escalation, basically if stuff stays as is, do you think he stops there? or are we looking at similar circumstances in a few years elsewhere?

I think he stops there, so long as no other country in the buffer zone doesn't get another Color Revolution on their hands. You see even right now that NATO is fracturing between the European members and the US over intervening in this crisis.

 

[volprof]

With NATO missiles being ever expanded towards Russia's borders, isolating sanctions to kill the Russian economy and most of the world media spewing Russian hate on a daily basis, why wouldn't they?

They can see the writing on the wall....sorry you can't..

So you're in support of a Russian preemptive strike?

 

[CSpindizzy]

With NATO missiles being ever expanded towards Russia's borders, isolating sanctions to kill the Russian economy and most of the world media spewing Russian hate on a daily basis, why wouldn't they?

They can see the writing on the wall....sorry you can't..

NATO missiles? Which missiles? Poland and the Baltics are screaming for the big stuff. No one has the grapefruits to oblige. The US sends a unit or two here and there to train Baltic forces. Nothing of a deterrent level. You have to be completely delusional to think NATO has made a significant upping of forces to be a legit threat. UK is completely downsizing. France? Nevermind. Germany? Nothing significant. Every major NATO nation has cut the budget. Right now air patrols merely guarding their own airspace is as threatening as it gets. Putting nuclear subs off the coast of several nations as well as heavy nuclear bombers? I've yet to see us park subs in the eastern Baltic. Where are the B-52's or anything else for that matter flying off Murmansk, Vladivostok, etc? Has Obama announced throwing out nuclear armament agreements and upping his nuclear forces? Putin has.

Facts simply show who the war monger is here if we are applying labels. To somehow call Obama the aggressor here is laughable at best. Putin invades his neighbors. Obama lets his neighbors invade him. Big difference.

 

[volprof]

I think he stops there, so long as no other country in the buffer zone doesn't get another Color Revolution on their hands. You see even right now that NATO is fracturing between the European members and the US over intervening in this crisis.

I find it absolutely fascinating how, for an individual apparently so concerned about freedom, democracy, etc., any movement towards liberal democracy elsewhere in the world is always reducible by you to a US plot.

You're either not very smart or not exactly what you profess to be. Or a combination of the two.

 

[CSpindizzy]

I think he stops there, so long as no other country in the buffer zone doesn't get another Color Revolution on their hands. You see even right now that NATO is fracturing between the European members and the US over intervening in this crisis.

Wait. NATO is fracturing? In my best Jon Stewart impression let me ask you if they are so fractured and are stumbling over decisions on intervention where is the threat? where is Putin's legitimacy in acting in defense? The dynamic is a little off here. We invest billions to overthrow a country's leader. We somehow support continued oppression of a minority group. But we allow a neighbor to go in and invade and undermine the leader we propped up. And somehow we are a threat to Russia when we are slashing budgets and cannot even tie our own shoes deciding what to do next. For all this effort to stage a coup to get our puppet in there we sure are doing little and tripping over ourselves to protect that little investment. Methinks something is off in this logic and way of thinking.