Ukraine Protests

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#7,426
#7,426
CSpindizzy said:
We just provide the tools for the people to rig their own. We are like the gun manufacturers. Can't blame us for the outcome. :)
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Saw someone on Twitter say this government may be more serious about reforms than any of the last 20 years.

Is it serious enough?
 
#7,427
#7,427
Burhead said:
Thanks. It appears through my research that the foreign fighters on behalf of Kyiv come from mostly Eastern Europe. Though I did see a video from a Belgian that was KIA fighting with Azov. If you believe RT though the DNR/LNR guys have Spanish and French guys and a lone American fighting with them. Also saw a pic of a Brazilian flag flying on a separatist tank.
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They have some as well but not as many. They claim quite a few but struggle to actually line them up for propaganda spin. If anything, their side has more foreign nationals as "journalists" who cover the conflict. You have little worms like Graham Phillips (Ras would love him) who basically are used to stage some of the drama scenes for Russian television. And their side cares less where you are from. As long as you fire in the other direction they will use you. That is unless you were the drunk Russian idiots who launched mortar rounds on their own soldiers in downtown Donetsk a little while back. No one knows what happened to those guys.
 
#7,429
#7,429
CSpindizzy said:
They have some as well but not as many. They claim quite a few but struggle to actually line them up for propaganda spin. If anything, their side has more foreign nationals as "journalists" who cover the conflict. You have little worms like Graham Phillips (Ras would love him) who basically are used to stage some of the drama scenes for Russian television. And their side cares less where you are from. As long as you fire in the other direction they will use you. That is unless you were the drunk Russian idiots who launched mortar rounds on their own soldiers in downtown Donetsk a little while back. No one knows what happened to those guys.
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I followed Graham for awhile but I just had to unfollow due to the complete nonsense he was spewing. Not to mention there are dozens of pictures he has taken wearing military gear with DNR fighters. We both know the outrage that would occur if Ukrainian soldiers shot him by accident.
 
#7,430
#7,430
Maybe if CSpindizzy had been in Crimea, him and the rest of the USAid groups could have gotten the vote down to maybe 60/40... or 55/45 in favor or joining Russia.
 
#7,431
#7,431
Rasputin_Vol said:
The 2004 Orange Revolution and vote rigging...

They have been trying to keep Viktor Yanukovych out of power for over 10 years before Maiden.
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Again you overestimate the effectiveness of our CIA. Do you really think we could have mobilized 18% of the country to join in the Orange Revolution?
 
#7,432
#7,432
Velo Vol said:
Saw someone on Twitter say this government may be more serious about reforms than any of the last 20 years.

Is it serious enough?
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It's a former Soviet country. Removing corruption is like removing vodka from the stores. The current government is serious. I think Poroshenko is serious. Problem is 1)they are VERY distracted with a war which means drastic measures are being taken to combat this and this makes fertile ground for additional corruption and 2)they are running out of non-corrupt politicians. Any ethnic Russians involved are automatically suspected for working for Russia. Others have oligarch connections which bring suspicion. Even some of the cabinet are foreigners because of their expertise and cleaner images.

They are pushing hard for reforms but have a lot to deal with. Problem is that Poroshenko could easily be forced out if Russians keep winning in the east. Our non-action could potentially cause his fall and his replacement may not be as productive/successful.
 
#7,433
#7,433
Case and point on Russian journalists wearing military gear;

B9ggjqVCQAAwZZX.jpg:large
 
#7,434
#7,434
CSpindizzy said:
It's a former Soviet country. Removing corruption is like removing vodka from the stores. The current government is serious. I think Poroshenko is serious. Problem is 1)they are VERY distracted with a war which means drastic measures are being taken to combat this and this makes fertile ground for additional corruption and 2)they are running out of non-corrupt politicians. Any ethnic Russians involved are automatically suspected for working for Russia. Others have oligarch connections which bring suspicion. Even some of the cabinet are foreigners because of their expertise and cleaner images.

They are pushing hard for reforms but have a lot to deal with. Problem is that Poroshenko could easily be forced out if Russians keep winning in the east. Our non-action could potentially cause his fall and his replacement may not be as productive/successful.
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Agreed. I've said previously if Petro doesn't get serious about the war the volunteer battalions will march on Kyiv. Few weeks ago apparently Aidar Battalion had already done so because of the lack of support for the guys in the field.
 
#7,435
#7,435
CSpindizzy said:
No. I work for a private company involved in political campaigns mostly here in the US. We do some international work in some areas. We just provide software and data as well as tools like text blasting, soliciting donations, and GOTV operations. We haven't worked with USAID. The closest groups like that we've worked with are IRI and NDI. Again, this work is pretty much based in Kyiv. My involvement in the SE is my personal involvement with missions/humanitarian orgs - churches, etc. Nothing secret or mysterious. Not an employee of Academi or anything.
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If it isn't USAid, then you are probably in TechCamp...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM[/youtube]
 
#7,436
#7,436
CSpindizzy said:
We just provide the tools for the people to rig their own. We are like the gun manufacturers. Can't blame us for the outcome. :)
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You're frankness is awesome and you seem like a good dude. I also appreciate your input since you've actually been on the ground. I do have one more question if your willing to answer. Do you know if you company was on a US gov contract, or was it a particular Ukrainian political party paying the bill?
 
#7,438
#7,438
Rasputin_Vol said:
The 2004 Orange Revolution and vote rigging...

They have been trying to keep Viktor Yanukovych out of power for over 10 years before Maiden.
Click to expand...

Flipside is trying to keep Yuschenko, Timoshenko, etc. out as well. Amazing how poisoning and jailing is far more credible than alleged election rigging.

So where is the proof of vote rigging there? Or is this more of your trolling Russian propaganda nonsense? I'd love to see the evidence. Or are you a sheep believing what Moscow states?
 
#7,439
#7,439
Rasputin_Vol said:
Maybe if CSpindizzy had been in Crimea, him and the rest of the USAid groups could have gotten the vote down to maybe 60/40... or 55/45 in favor or joining Russia.
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When guys with guns from Moscow won't let anyone in but still call it legit, what does it matter?
 
#7,440
#7,440
Rasputin_Vol said:
If it isn't USAid, then you are probably in TechCamp...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM[/youtube]
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Nope. And using Oleg as a source just keeps burying your credibility. This clown gets his marching orders from FSB and uses the same strategy of Putin with punishing people who have any foreign connections at all. He tried to get Christian missions groups thrown out for allegedly brainwashing orphans to hate Russia.

Keep trying with the guesses and assumptions.
 
#7,441
#7,441
CSpindizzy said:
Flipside is trying to keep Yuschenko, Timoshenko, etc. out as well. Amazing how poisoning and jailing is far more credible than alleged election rigging.

So where is the proof of vote rigging there? Or is this more of your trolling Russian propaganda nonsense? I'd love to see the evidence. Or are you a sheep believing what Moscow states?
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Ukrainian presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many commentators saw the elections as being influenced by outside powers, notably the United States, the European Union and Russia, with the US backing Yushchenko (Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski and Senator John McCain all visited Kiev, in official or private capacities), and Russian president Vladimir Putin publicly backing Yanukovych. In the media the two candidates were contrasted, with Yushchenko representing both the pro-Western Kiev residents as well as the rural Ukrainians, whereas Yanukovych represents the Eastern, pro-Russian industrial laborers.
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#7,442
#7,442
red butler said:
You're frankness is awesome and you seem like a good dude. I also appreciate your input since you've actually been on the ground. I do have one more question if your willing to answer. Do you know if you company was on a US gov contract, or was it a particular Ukrainian political party paying the bill?
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I will be the first to say there are issues on all sides. But when you had a nation set up for failure and Putin has been allowed to dabble in their affairs to weaken them going back to 2000, I have problems. Putin's whole philosophy is to undermine from within. This whole process was in motion far before Maidan. Maidan merely accelerated his own needs.

I've tried to call events as I have seen them. As far as allegiances go, I have no agenda. I have connections in Russia - maybe even more there than in Ukraine. I know more ethnic Russians in the Baltics and Ukraine than I do the locals. I speak Russian and love the country and the people. But there is still a Soviet mindset, a cancer. Putin is the facilitator of that. He has done more to destroy Russia joining the 21st century than anything else. I have friends from well over a decade who now trash talk and have turned away from those friendships all based on what Putin says in the media.

We worked with a party. And before Ras goes off on us getting the $5 billion, this money was not for partisan activities. If I am not mistaken that money was invested over a period of 20 years for election commission and monitor work. Parties were not recipients of that money.
 
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#7,445
#7,445
Pacer92 said:
And Maiden, the overthrow of Yanukovich, was legit?
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The man left. Apparently he was afraid of those people with sticks and gas masks. He had the military and Berkut killing people. Why did he flee? The man violated his sworn duties and turned on his own people. He left. Someone had to step in. It was not the best of situations. Had he not screwed over his country, stolen billions, ruined the military and violated his promises the peaceful protests would have never begun. When he started beating, killing, kidnapping, etc. he is the one who took Ukraine down the wrong path. I cannot fault a mass grassroots movement for merely assembling in the capital to protest unlawful, corrupt actions. What Yanukovich did was not legit. So from the get-go he was the source of non-legit actions.
 
#7,446
#7,446
CSpindizzy said:
The man left. Apparently he was afraid of those people with sticks and gas masks. He had the military and Berkut killing people. Why did he flee? The man violated his sworn duties and turned on his own people. He left. Someone had to step in. It was not the best of situations. Had he not screwed over his country, stolen billions, ruined the military and violated his promises the peaceful protests would have never begun. When he started beating, killing, kidnapping, etc. he is the one who took Ukraine down the wrong path. I cannot fault a mass grassroots movement for merely assembling in the capital to protest unlawful, corrupt actions. What Yanukovich did was not legit. So from the get-go he was the source of non-legit actions.
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Better go ahead and get your post developed concerning how the Berkut snipers were in fact Berkut snipers and not protesters or CIA agents.
 
#7,447
#7,447
CSpindizzy said:
Where is the vote rigging? You do know influencing and rigging are not the same right? If that was the case every single election in our nation's history was rigged.
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To be clear, I was being sarcastic when I said you rig votes earlier. I know there is a ton of technology required for campaigns. I hope you did not take offense.
 
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#7,448
#7,448
volprof said:
Better go ahead and get your post developed concerning how the Berkut snipers were in fact Berkut snipers and not protesters or CIA agents.
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Forget even the snipers. The guys lined up on the front lines tried in waves to break through people just locking arms. I saw rifle butts used on people just sitting on the ground. I know Ras will never be changed with even facts. All I can say is that I was there for a good bit of the time. The CIA would have to have one major presence and the ability to drop in hundreds of people speaking the language and playing the part quite well. Considering all of the ones making the decisions and in the know on the events all fled to Russia you'd think they would produce evidence of this mass conspiracy of vote rigging and country stealing. Apparently a Nuland phone call and McCain taking selfies in Kyiv results in government/regime changes. McCain needs to be sent to Moscow if he has this sort of pull.
 
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#7,449
#7,449
CSpindizzy said:
Forget even the snipers. The guys lined up on the front lines tried in waves to break through people just locking arms. I saw rifle butts used on people just sitting on the ground. I know Ras will never be changed with even facts. All I can say is that I was there for a good bit of the time. The CIA would have to have one major presence and the ability to drop in hundreds of people speaking the language and playing the part quite well. Considering all of the ones making the decisions and in the know on the events all fled to Russia you'd think they would produce evidence of this mass conspiracy of vote rigging and country stealing. Apparently a Nuland phone call and McCain taking selfies in Kyiv results in government/regime changes. McCain needs to be sent to Moscow if he has this sort of pull.
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The Ukrainian lawmaker in the video I posted said TechCamp had 300 operatives scattered throughout the country, not to mention the other organizations in Ukraine.

Sounds like your beef should be with the Ukrainian lawmaker for saying such things, not aimed at me for reporting what he said.
 
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#7,450
#7,450
red butler said:
To be clear, I was being sarcastic when I said you rig votes earlier. I know there is a ton of technology required for campaigns. I hope you did not take offense.
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Completely understood. No offense taken.

All we could do is attempt to contact people by text to vote and then monitor results as they came in. We merely took numbers that were handwritten on their election commission walls and entered them in to be viewed on a website for pretty much any group to monitor the results. Parties could monitor this in real time and then contest if need be. Nothing fancy. With what they had it could not be any more innovative. With party monitors at the ballot boxes it would have been difficult to pull off rigging. It would take a one sided monitoring - basically only one side allowed to track and no outside monitors allowed in. Wait. That happened somewhere else....
 
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