Ukraine Protests

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#7,377
#7,377
Pacer92 said:
If it's true.....many bogus reports of Kiev claiming this!!

Like most of their claims...
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Of course the separatists can do no wrong. I'm also sure you don't believe that launched the Grad attack against Mariupol last month either.
 
#7,378
#7,378
CSpindizzy said:
The sad part is that they are shelling the crap out of the towns of the people they claim to liberate. Seems stupid to completely destroy the towns within the borders of your so called republics. If these are your people why completely obliterate the towns and kill the civilians that 'voted for you'?
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These are very good questions to be asking... It just doesn't make a lick of sense for them to bomb their own people... does it?
 
#7,379
#7,379
Pacer92 said:
If it's true.....many bogus reports of Kiev claiming this!!

Like most of their claims...
Click to expand...

You're like Bart in the global warming thread, anything that counters your orthodoxy must be a lie and it's preferable to shoot the messenger than actually hear the message.
 
#7,380
#7,380
 
#7,384
#7,384
Rasputin_Vol said:
These are very good questions to be asking... It just doesn't make a lick of sense for them to bomb their own people... does it?
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You clearly didn't read my post and get my argument. These are not locals. They are Russian soldiers. Putin has never cared about ethnic Russians outside his borders (or inside for that matter - see the sanctions hurting lower and middle class in Russia for one).
 
#7,385
#7,385
MG1968 said:
You're like Bart in the global warming thread, anything that counters your orthodoxy must be a lie and it's preferable to shoot the messenger than actually hear the message.
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You've brought absolutely no proof to this thread....

I'll wait...
 
#7,387
#7,387
Burhead said:
Yeah. I often wonder how the Ukrainian military would have fared had they not put it through years of chronic underfunding, letting the Russian embed with them, and equipping it with a large number of newer Ukrainian technology from Ukroboronprom.
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Budapest Memorandum was the first step in the wrong direction. Lugar and Obama pushing to destroy some of their conventional weapon supplies didn't help. Add to the fact that Yanukovich completely degraded his military - intentionally many speculate to make what is happening now possible. He slashed the budget, cut training and equipping, killed maintenance contracts, and stacked the leadership with pro-Russian generals who ensured the degradation continue.

The US pushed for downgrading with assurances we will help them. Russia pushed for downgrading to help break down Ukraine's ability to counter anything Russia did. And we see the results.
 
#7,389
#7,389
CSpindizzy said:
Budapest Memorandum was the first step in the wrong direction. Lugar and Obama pushing to destroy some of their conventional weapon supplies didn't help. Add to the fact that Yanukovich completely degraded his military - intentionally many speculate to make what is happening now possible. He slashed the budget, cut training and equipping, killed maintenance contracts, and stacked the leadership with pro-Russian generals who ensured the degradation continue.

The US pushed for downgrading with assurances we will help them. Russia pushed for downgrading to help break down Ukraine's ability to counter anything Russia did. And we see the results.
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This little fact tends to go unnoticed these days.
 
#7,390
#7,390
Pacer92 said:
You've brought absolutely no proof to this thread....

I'll wait...
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And you have? Wild speculation and conspiracy theories circulated by Russian based sites is not exactly proof of anything. I am still waiting for proof from anyone that we installed Yatsenyuk and he was our guy. Right now all I see is delusional talk and defense of Putin violating agreements and his invasion.
 
#7,394
#7,394
CSpindizzy said:
And you have? Wild speculation and conspiracy theories circulated by Russian based sites is not exactly proof of anything. I am still waiting for proof from anyone that we installed Yatsenyuk and he was our guy. Right now all I see is delusional talk and defense of Putin violating agreements and his invasion.
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I bring it everyday. Keep dismissing it because your govt tells you to everyday!!

Don't be scared to look at an alternative perspective.
 
#7,395
#7,395
This is rich:

@L0gg0l 2m2 minutes ago

U.S. TRYING TO DRAW RUSSIA INTO INTERNATIONAL MILITARY CONFLICT, USE UKRAINIAN EVENTS TO CHANGE GOVERNMENT, DISMEMBER COUNTRY - PATRUSHEV
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#7,396
#7,396
Casualties from the Kramatorsk attack has risen to 12 dead, 64 injured including 35 civilians, 8 of whom were children.
 
#7,397
#7,397
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQkEMzsTCR0[/youtube]

Glad to know the Russians have no qualms about using kids to fight.
 
#7,398
#7,398
Pacer92 said:
I bring it everyday. Keep dismissing it because your govt tells you to everyday!!

Don't be scared to look at an alternative perspective.
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Sorry buddy. I don't depend on the government. I've been on the ground here. I've been doing work in Ukraine since 2004. I've seen this firsthand. I'm not hiding behind a keyboard repeating the nonsense found on Russian based sites. I've been in this region. I have seen this in person. I've yet to see oppression in this area. I've seen the ethnic Russian locals run in both directions. I've seen dead bodies from indiscriminate shelling. I've seen an orphanage leveled by Russian artillery. I've seen evangelical churches blown up by Russian Orthodox monks from Moscow because of the "heresy". I've seen remnants of buses after an artillery strike.

My alternate perspective is seeing death in the region firsthand. I saw Maidan events. I've recently returned from the area currently in the news. So please. Question me more on credibility.
 
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#7,399
#7,399
CSpindizzy said:
Sorry buddy. I don't depend on the government. I've been on the ground here. I've been doing work in Ukraine since 2004. I've seen this firsthand. I'm not hiding behind a keyboard repeating the nonsense found on Russian based sites. I've been in this region. I have seen this in person. I've yet to see oppression in this area. I've seen the ethnic Russian locals run in both directions. I've seen dead bodies from indiscriminate shelling. I've seen an orphanage leveled by Russian artillery. I've seen evangelical churches blown up by Russian Orthodox monks from Moscow because of the "heresy". I've seen remnants of buses after an artillery strike.

My alternate perspective is seeing death in the region firsthand. I saw Maidan events. I've recently returned from the area currently in the news. So please. Question me more on credibility.
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they wont believe you, even if they did believe you are over there they won't believe a word you say. until Putin calls them up they will deny it and have said almost as much.
 
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