Ukraine Protests

[Velo Vol]

That the US State Department and the U.S. Ukrainian ambassador might discuss their preferences regarding the Ukrainian government is apparently a remarkable thing.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

the planes are where they keep the fuel, boom. and the WTC collapsed 'on' their smaller brother resulting in structural compromise, even if it hadn't collapsed they would have had to demo it. I was there a year after and they were still repairing the buildings surrounding ground zero. and really your conspiracy on the WTC attack hinges on there being money involved. in a terrorist attack designed to destabilize the US you are shocked the money got attacked in the World Trade Center (that wasn't an idle name)?

Just so happened to hit W's brother in-laws office who was deep ish and fixing to be audited, one or two days before, the CIA comes out and says they have an extraordinary about of money missing, guess where supposed "plane" hits. There's substantial about of evidence stacked up against the official narrative, instead of look for yourself you're contempt with what White House officials and mainstream media tells you?

 

[LouderVol]

Just so happened to hit W's brother in-laws office who was deep ish and fixing to be audited, one or two days before, the CIA comes out and says they have an extraordinary about of money missing, guess where supposed "plane" hits. There's substantial about of evidence stacked up against the official narrative, instead of look for yourself you're contempt with what White House officials and mainstream media tells you?

lolololololol. first off no, i have done my own research. in college i was able to see copies of the structural drawings of the existing buildings, reports of the impacts including fuel loads and misc whatnot and talked with a professional structural engineer this is all after listening to lecture given by an architect who worked on the WTC. That is what i base my 'opinion' on. and for one casting stones at the official story you are quick to bite on any conspiracy websites 'proof' which amounts to little more than rich powerful men worked in the buildings (durhur its NYC) throw a dead cat and you are likely to hit a few billionaires neck deep in crap, sorry if that fact doesn't sway me to the 'truth' based on 'expert video analysis'

 

[LouderVol]

also do you have any idea how difficult it would be to specifically hit ones guys office? the floors and rooms are not marked on the outside and it would have been impossible to gauge it with the human eye while flying.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

lolololololol. first off no, i have done my own research. in college i was able to see copies of the structural drawings of the existing buildings, reports of the impacts including fuel loads and misc whatnot and talked with a professional structural engineer this is all after listening to lecture given by an architect who worked on the WTC. That is what i base my 'opinion' on. and for one casting stones at the official story you are quick to bite on any conspiracy websites 'proof' which amounts to little more than rich powerful men worked in the buildings (durhur its NYC) throw a dead cat and you are likely to hit a few billionaires neck deep in crap, sorry if that fact doesn't sway me to the 'truth' based on 'expert video analysis'

It's not the fact rich business were hit, it's what those businesses were involved in. Your theory does nothing to disprove the pentagon attack, that hit the CIA files, that also just so happened to be under construction. How many cameras through out DC should have had some sort of footage of a plane flying towards the pentagon? Where's the footage? And I'm still caught up on the fact that anybody believes, in 2001, a commercial air line can turn off it's transponder, which will still show up to military air control, and fly into the most restricted air space in the world, unnoticed.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

also do you have any idea how difficult it would be to specifically hit ones guys office? the floors and rooms are not marked on the outside and it would have been impossible to gauge it with the human eye while flying.

If you believe a pilot who barely got his license flying a sesna less than a year before can fly into the pentagon, a very small target, then why can't you believe they hit a specific area of the towers?

 

[CSpindizzy]

yeah but what about all the oppression that has happened since that we have to take Pacer's word for?

What oppression?

 

[red butler]

And I'm still caught up on the fact that anybody believes, in 2001, a commercial air line can turn off it's transponder, which will still show up to military air control, and fly into the most restricted air space in the world, unnoticed.

The planes were difficult to track because the military was caught up in an exercise called Vigilant Guardian. The jihadis had good intel on the perfect time to strike.

 

[CSpindizzy]

You have to understand the Ras and Pacer mentality:

A vote in the Crimea that ends in 97% wanting to join Russia - Completely legit

A Ukrainian national election where an immensely popular figure gets elected with more than half the votes in the country - State Department rigged a national election and installed "their" guy

Yes and the "government" of these two shoddy 'republics' run by guys from Moscow are legit as well. Not to mention their whole military run by FSB guys. Yes, but let's focus on a bureaucrat's audio and ignore the other facts. That mentality you speak of is what composes RT, Life News, and the trolls that hit every news story on the subject matter.

 

[Obsessed]

lolololololol. first off no, i have done my own research. in college i was able to see copies of the structural drawings of the existing buildings, reports of the impacts including fuel loads and misc whatnot and talked with a professional structural engineer this is all after listening to lecture given by an architect who worked on the WTC. That is what i base my 'opinion' on. and for one casting stones at the official story you are quick to bite on any conspiracy websites 'proof' which amounts to little more than rich powerful men worked in the buildings (durhur its NYC) throw a dead cat and you are likely to hit a few billionaires neck deep in crap, sorry if that fact doesn't sway me to the 'truth' based on 'expert video analysis'

Lulz

 

[Obsessed]

If you believe a pilot who barely got his license flying a sesna less than a year before can fly into the pentagon, a very small target, then why can't you believe they hit a specific area of the towers?

Just happened to be the area where all the computers were located that stored all kinds of info. Especially the missing 2 trillion dollars.

 

[LouderVol]

It's not the fact rich business were hit, it's what those businesses were involved in. Your theory does nothing to disprove the pentagon attack, that hit the CIA files, that also just so happened to be under construction. How many cameras through out DC should have had some sort of footage of a plane flying towards the pentagon? Where's the footage? And I'm still caught up on the fact that anybody believes, in 2001, a commercial air line can turn off it's transponder, which will still show up to military air control, and fly into the most restricted air space in the world, unnoticed.

the attack at the pentagon came from the w/sw which is arlington VA not DC and there is nothing there worth video recording, believe me i have been there and been disappointed. and also the people in DC might have been busy dealing with the fallout of the earlier attacks, just a thought, i know i was still in shock at that point.

9:24: The FAA notifies NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector about the suspected hijacking of Flight 77. The FAA and NORAD establish an open line to discuss Flight 77, and shortly thereafter Flight 93.

9:33–9:34: Tower supervisor at Reagan National Airport tells Secret Service operations center at the White House that "an aircraft [is] coming at you and not talking with us," referring to Flight 77. The White House is about to be evacuated when the tower reports that Flight 77 has turned and is approaching Reagan National Airport.

9:35: Based on a report that Flight 77 had turned again and was circling back toward the District of Columbia, the Secret Service orders the immediate evacuation of the Vice President from the White House.

what were they supposed to do? move the building? blow up a plane full (sort of) civilians over densely populated land? find out if bruce willis was on the plane and could fight the terrorists and land the plane?

 

[LouderVol]

What oppression?

exactly the question we have been asking of Ras and Pacer

 

[LouderVol]

Just happened to be the area where all the computers were located that stored all kinds of info. Especially the missing 2 trillion dollars.

if that was the only sensitive info stored there you would have an argument, but at your own admittance they stored all types of stuff.

 

[Obsessed]

if that was the only sensitive info stored there you would have an argument, but at your own admittance they stored all types of stuff.

2 Trillion is a hell of a motive

Rumsfeld gave a speech the day before about not being able to find the money.

Are you of the opinion the US government has or would committ a conspiracy against its people?

 

[LouderVol]

2 Trillion is a hell of a motive

Rumsfeld gave a speech the day before about not being able to find the money.

Are you of the opinion the US government has or would committ a conspiracy against its people?

a conspiracy, yes. this conspiracy no. i have plenty of my own wacky ones, and used to believe in this one until i did my own research outside of reading crazy websites.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

A vote in the Crimea that ends in 97% wanting to join Russia - Completely legit

You all proved last week that this is a non-issue. You all want to argue the margin of victory, but can't argue that the outcome would have been different if the election was structured to your liking. You all don't have that issue to argue anymore.

A Ukrainian national election where an immensely popular figure gets elected with more than half the votes in the country - State Department rigged a national election and installed "their" guy

No, lets go back before that to the Maidan. The overthrow of Yanukovich and the State Department having a ready made govt in place is where the argument is. It didn't really matter who the president was, just as long as Yatsenyuk was the prime minister.

 

[CSpindizzy]

No, lets go back before that to the Maidan. The overthrow of Yanukovich and the State Department having a ready made govt in place is where the argument is. It didn't really matter who the president was, just as long as Yatsenyuk was the prime minister.

I'll bite. There was no ready made government in place. There was a scramble by several parties to throw something in place. A little lesson in European politics. Most nations have a 'shadow government' - it's the minority party's version of the government had they been in power. Because coalitions fade and no confidence votes happen, typically arrangements are made well in advance of possible back up governments. To somehow conclude the US had one in place is ignorant on all counts.

There was an actual panic though. Timoshenko wanted in. Klitschko did as well. There was a jockeying for positioning and power. There was no government walking in the door with the US blessing. We had our preferred candidates but it was't a matter of us installing anyone.

 

[LouderVol]

You all proved last week that this is a non-issue. You all want to argue the margin of victory, but can't argue that the outcome would have been different if the election was structured to your liking. You all don't have that issue to argue anymore.

if they didn't need to cheat why did they? and secondly there would be a 'someone' for them to be cheating, which goes further to imply everything wasn't on the up and up.

and for the record we know who the someone is and what they did to fix the elections. Putin, and run pro-Ukrainians out and have their soldiers at that the polls, and also not following the proper protocols established and agreed upon by Crimea for secession from Ukraine.

 

[Grand Vol]

You all proved last week that this is a non-issue. You all want to argue the margin of victory, but can't argue that the outcome would have been different if the election was structured to your liking. You all don't have that issue to argue anymore.

And you proved last week you are so detached from reality you don't even realize the numbers are what's important.

If you're going to rig an election, you might make the numbers more plausible.

No, lets go back before that to the Maidan. The overthrow of Yanukovich and the State Department having a ready made govt in place is where the argument is. It didn't really matter who the president was, just as long as Yatsenyuk was the prime minister.

Right...

 

[Velo Vol]

We had our preferred candidates but it was't a matter of us installing anyone.

It was also an interim government, pending elections.

 

[CSpindizzy]

When you do not allow open access to neutral monitors and you have masked, heavily armed guards at polling stations as well as pictures of pre-voted ballots making the rounds, it puts a question on the credibility.

Add to the fact that these who supposedly voted pro-Russian are moving in droves deeper into Ukraine? I guess they had a change of heart? Buses evacuating Debaltseve were given two destinations: Donetsk (DNR controlled) or into Ukraine. The Ukraine bound buses were packed to capacity. The ones Donetsk bound? They could not even fill one bus. Seems odd for these people to want to go to their "oppressors".

Back on Yatsenyuk....if memory serves me correctly Yanukovich himself wanted to install Yatsenyuk before he fled. So does that mean the Putin lapdog was in on the US installed government plan as well?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'll bite. There was no ready made government in place. There was a scramble by several parties to throw something in place. A little lesson in European politics. Most nations have a 'shadow government' - it's the minority party's version of the government had they been in power. Because coalitions fade and no confidence votes happen, typically arrangements are made well in advance of possible back up governments. To somehow conclude the US had one in place is ignorant on all counts.

There was an actual panic though. Timoshenko wanted in. Klitschko did as well. There was a jockeying for positioning and power. There was no government walking in the door with the US blessing. We had our preferred candidates but it was't a matter of us installing anyone.

And yet with all of that, Yatsenyuk ended up as prime minister after the dust settled. Coincidence I guess...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And you proved last week you are so detached from reality you don't even realize the numbers are what's important.

If you're going to rig an election, you might make the numbers more plausible.



Right...

As I said last week, if you are really upset about the outcome in Crimea, then you should be biting nails at the election results in Afghanistan last summer. Maybe the Crimeans should take lessons from John Kerry on how to really rig an election. The State Department was 2-0 last year (Ukraine and Afghanistan).

 

[CSpindizzy]

And yet with all of that, Yatsenyuk ended up as prime minister after the dust settled. Coincidence I guess...

See my above post. Yanukovich wanted him in there. Was Viktor in on the act as well? Seems weird that Putin's pet was all about installing Yatsenyuk as PM as well.

Coincidence? The man was high up. Again, he was head of the minority government. If the majority leader is gone and his party crumbles, typically the leader of the minority party moves into the spot. Move along. No conspiracy here. This is how European government works.