Is it time for revolution?

#353
#353
I thought we had already deemed the property tax as ineffective, considering what would have to be charged in order to generate the necessary revenue. As for slavery being the root cause for the revolutionary war, could you share an informative link on that.
 
#354
#354
therealUT said:
One thing you will find when you read actual history, not merely historical works written today, but actual primary source documents, is that the lament of the current generation and the glorification of days of old is a consistent theme. A consistent theme throughout the history of the world is a view of the nostalgic past as a golden era; the present as corrupt and tending toward the absolute desecration of society and civilization.
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The upcoming election is always the most important one in civilized history. Vote for the right candidate, or the world is doomed.
 
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#356
#356
I for one wouldn't sign up for a revolution if the end result was TUTs plan of a national property tax. No way no how, I thought a revolution was to take power away from the feds not ceding more power to them.
 
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#357
#357
Velo Vol said:
The upcoming election is always the most important one in civilized history. Vote for the right candidate, or the world is doomed.
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Of course it is because it determines future events, past elections are irrelevant because history can't be changed.

Unless you're the one writing the text books that is.
 
#358
#358
And for the unlawful seizures TRUT, I have a close family member who holds position with TN DOS and DHS, it is far more rampant than you think. I also had a direct family member LT Col in the same building, I'm not just pulling stuff from thin air. Both have said there is a problem.
 
#359
#359
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I could sit here and say certain periods of our short history as a nation, but it's all speculation from what I've read in history books. I'd honestly liked to have lived in the early days of the new country, or turn of the 19th century. Speculation of course, however, I don't believe the federal government was ever intended to be the domestic force it is today, I think we live under the most oppression today since the independence revolution, and I only see it getting continually worse.
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Danl said:
Pick a time in history that you've speculated about. Now really think about how your day to day life would be there and then. What you would have to do just to survive and provide for a family? Think about the available science and medicine you would have access to. Think about the housing and public utilities available to you. Think about what dangers you and your family might face just living your life.

Now, think about the choices and opportunities you have today vs then.
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OrangeWayOfLife said:
Is this relevant at all, seriously? Where did I say abandon science, public utilities, and modern medicine?
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Reread the above exchange.

You were proposing that various times in the past were "better to be alive" than today. I gave some examples of why that is not true from my point of view.

Maybe you should spend less time getting amped up watching historical melodramas on TV and more time analyzing actual history before comparing today to those Golden Days of Yore. Just a thought.
 
#360
#360
Danl said:
Reread the above exchange.

You were proposing that various times in the past were "better to be alive" than today. I gave some examples of why that is not true from my point of view.

Maybe you should spend less time getting amped up watching historical melodramas on TV and more time analyzing actual history before comparing today to those Golden Days of Yore. Just a thought.
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I didn't say verbatim "it would be better to be alive" in those days. I'm just very interested in life of those era's. As we grow and evolve things do change, but the idea of freedom and liberty should remain the same. Should have never answered you damned question.
 
#361
#361
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I thought we had already deemed the property tax as ineffective, considering what would have to be charged in order to generate the necessary revenue. As for slavery being the root cause for the revolutionary war, could you share an informative link on that.
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Nope.

All things being equal, the property tax right now would have to be between $1,500-2,000/acre, which is just a bit more than farmer's are currently paying, indirectly, through the federal tax structure on acre of land. Yes, I find that oppressive.

However, all things being equal, your sales tax rate would have to be much higher than 15%, and since many taxpaying Americans do not even have a 15% actual federal tax rate, that would be just as, if not more, oppressive. I would guess that most taxpaying Americans send less than 12.5% of their income to government.
 
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#362
#362
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I didn't say verbatim "it would be better to be alive" in those days. I'm just very interested in life of those era's. As we grow and evolve things do change, but the idea of freedom and liberty should remain the same. Should have never answered you damned question.
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Part in bold is interesting. If we assume that to be true, how can you seriously hold the position that our current time is the worst in our country's history since the revolution?
 
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#363
#363
therealUT said:
Nope.

All things being equal, the property tax right now would have to be between $1,500-2,000/acre, which is just a bit more than farmer's are currently paying, indirectly, through the federal tax structure on acre of land. Yes, I find that oppressive.

However, all things being equal, your sales tax rate would have to be much higher than 15%, and since many taxpaying Americans do not even have a 15% actual federal tax rate, that would be just as, if not more, oppressive. I would guess that most taxpaying Americans send less than 12.5% of their income to government.
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You view land as only a source of income, but what about landowners who are not farmers. I have family that owns 17 acres that makes less than 40k a year, so they're supposed to turn around pay 34k in taxes?
 
#364
#364
OrangeWayOfLife said:
And for the unlawful seizures TRUT, I have a close family member who holds position with TN DOS and DHS, it is far more rampant than you think. I also had a direct family member LT Col in the same building, I'm not just pulling stuff from thin air. Both have said there is a problem.
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Three million individuals are not being subjected to warrantless searches and seizures every year in America. Since I said 1%, I'm unsure of how you are able to conclude that this is more rampant than I think.
 
#365
#365
OrangeWayOfLife said:
You view land as only a source of income, but what about landowners who are not farmers. I have family that owns 17 acres that makes less than 40k a year, so they're supposed to turn around pay 34k in taxes?
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They're supposed to either pay or stop wasting land.
 
#366
#366
What's not calculated in this plan is the fact farmland, wooded or idle land costs the government almost nothing in services compared to medium/high density sub divisions or other developments.
 
#368
#368
hog88 said:
What's not calculated in this plan is the fact farmland, wooded or idle land costs the government almost nothing in services compared to medium/high density sub divisions or other developments.
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This is correct.
 
#369
#369
I've spent the past 48 hours running in circles with you people. I've come to the conclusion y'all believe we should be complacent because we have it so good. There's no need to worry about a growing a federal government that has the potential of very bad things in the wrong hands, hey, if I'm not doing anything wrong, what should I worry. We should all just sit here and be thankful because there have been/are people that have had it worse. Want to search my house officer, come on in, I have no contraband. Want to take my gun, here it is, why do I need a gun if you are protecting me. Want to screen all my phone calls, I'm not involved anything illegal, go right ahead. Lunacy
 
#371
#371
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I've spent the past 48 hours running in circles with you people. I've come to the conclusion y'all believe we should be complacent because we have it so good.
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Being complacent is not the contradictory of pushing for revolution. One can neither be complacent nor be pushing for a revolution.
 
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#372
#372
therealUT said:
If it's not being used to produce for others, it's being wasted, and one lacks any right to such land.

See the step-by-step argument above.
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You really freaking believe evey acre in America can produce a profit, how many head of cattle would I have to run on 10 acres to clear 20,000 a year? And that's just to pay the taxes.
 
#373
#373
therealUT said:
Being complacent is not the contradictory of pushing for revolution. One can neither be complacent nor be pushing for a revolution.
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You haven't said that as much, you just of a crazy ass idea of land tax that only makes sense in a densely populated area that you refuse to acknowledge can't work in a nation such as ours.
 
#374
#374
OrangeWayOfLife said:
You really freaking believe evey acre in America can produce a profit, how many head of cattle would I have to run on 10 acres to clear 20,000 a year? And that's just to pay the taxes.
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I think that put to the right use by the right persons, the vast majority of the land can be used productively. If someone cannot make their land productive and refuses to pay the taxes, then bring on someone else. Eventually, you will have someone who can make it productive. Social Darwinism. If you suck, stop taking up the land.
 
#375
#375
therealUT said:
If it's not being used to produce for others, it's being wasted, and one lacks any right to such land.

See the step-by-step argument above.
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I saw that and disagree with it with every fiber of my being. What you are proposing is a severe restriction on individual ownership rights.

I would fight a revolution against anyone proposing what you are.
 
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