Is it time for revolution?

#303
#303
OrangeWayOfLife said:
100% agree but would like to see both implemented. And the only way were going to get the government to cut spending is revolution. They have grown too big for us to control.
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We must have vastly different visions of revolution and what the results would be.

Let me ask you this: What country's government would you rather have vs. ours? Please don't answer right away. Peruse the entire list here:

List of sovereign states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#304
#304
Danl said:
We must have vastly different visions of revolution and what the results would be.

Let me ask you this: What country's government would you rather have vs. ours? Please don't answer right away. Peruse the entire list here:

List of sovereign states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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There are multiple meanings of revolution. I never said start from scratch. I don't want to reiterate my 100 prior posts in this thread, please read through this entire discussion
 
#305
#305
OrangeWayOfLife said:
There are multiple meanings of revolution. I never said start from scratch. I don't want to reiterate my 100 prior posts in this thread, please read through this entire discussion
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I have read the entire thread. I don't think you have clearly defined exactly what you mean by revolution.

You sure responded quickly. I don't think you actually looked at the entire list of countries. Nevertheless, can you answer my question?
 
#306
#306
Danl said:
I have read the entire thread. I don't think you have clearly defined exactly what you mean by revolution.

You sure responded quickly. I don't think you actually looked at the entire list of countries. Nevertheless, can you answer my question?
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We don't need a new government, we need a rebuild
 
#308
#308
Danl said:
Out of the 196 countries on earth, would you prefer one of the other governments over ours?
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I believe the ideaology of our government structure is the best in the world. But the federal government has gotten way to big, oppressive and invasive, and that the common man has lost any control of what goes on within our government.
 
#309
#309
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I believe the ideaology of our government structure is the best in the world. But the federal government has gotten way to big, oppressive and invasive, and that the common man has lost any control of what goes on within our government.
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I agree with you that our government is the best in the world.

Everything can be improved.

I think that you and I have just as much control over the federal government as common folk ever have. Why do you think you have less control than some farmer from Manchester Tn had 100 or 150 years ago? Try to be specific.
 
#310
#310
Danl said:
I agree with you that our government is the best in the world.

Everything can be improved.

I think that you and I have just as much control over the federal government as common folk ever have. Why do you think you have less control than some farmer from Manchester Tn had 100 or 150 years ago? Try to be specific.
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Lack of accountability held on our officials. What has come of Benghazi, NSA surveillance, the refusal of releasing information on sandy hook, using a federal agency to attack another political party, militaristic moves without congressional approval, nothing! Continually assault on 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights. We can't even get them to control the border. This list is rather substantially as this only a sample size
 
#311
#311
OrangeWayOfLife said:
Lack of accountability held on our officials. What has come of Benghazi, NSA surveillance, the refusal of releasing information on sandy hook, using a federal agency to attack another political party, militaristic moves without congressional approval, nothing! Continually assault on 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights. We can't even get them to control the border. This list is rather substantially as this only a sample size
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That's a list of political scandals and Gov shortcomings. Not to dismiss any of them, but do you really believe that there are more or worse political scandals and shortcomings now than in the past?

But that doesn't answer my question about your post about you or I losing control over the gov. Can you address that?
 
#312
#312
Danl said:
That's a list of political scandals and Gov shortcomings. Not to dismiss any of them, but do you really believe that there are more or worse political scandals and shortcomings now than in the past?

But that doesn't answer my question about your post about you or I losing control over the gov. Can you address that?
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Starting from the top. When we elect a president he has procedures he has to follow to remain within his bounds of the constitution. The use of executive orders should be illegal as he his not the monarch, I know this started with bush, but has been intensified by Obama. Then we have congress, how many days a year are these guys laying out? How many are voting for what's best for Americans, they are so hung up on the red vs blue instead of what's actually best for me and you. It's just an arm wrestling match to them. How many of them are completely informed on the documents on which they're voting? And what about the ridiculous about of government agencies and the unbinding powers instilled in them since 9/11. The TSA, NSA, DHS, ICE, DEA, etc have all gotten way too big and harass law abiding citizens while the actual success of them stopping any sort of crime is highly debatable. We seen a full scale police state in boston following the bombings, going house to house with no search warrant. Do you not see where I'm coming from?
 
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#313
#313
OrangeWayOfLife said:
Starting from the top. When we elect a president he has procedures he has to follow to remain within his bounds of the constitution. The use of executive orders should be illegal as he his not the monarch, I know this started with bush, but has been intensified by Obama. Then we have congress, how many days a year are these guys laying out? How many are voting for what's best for Americans, they are so hung up on the red vs blue instead of what's actually best for me and you. It's just an arm wrestling match to them. How many of them are completely informed on the documents on which they're voting? And what about the ridiculous about of government agencies and the unbinding powers instilled in them since 9/11. The TSA, NSA, DHS, ICE, DEA, etc have all gotten way too big and harass law abiding citizens while the actual success of them stopping any sort of crime is highly debatable. We seen a full scale police state in boston following the bombings, going house to house with no search warrant. Do you not see where I'm coming from?
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I think I understand what you're saying.

Its a matter of perspective. This crap has been going on in governments, all governments, since long before our founding fathers. Its going on now. It will continue to go on, more or less unabated, til kingdom come. Further, common folk like you and I have never (never, ever) had much to say about it. The perception that there was a time when we did is a myth. We get one vote each, now as ever. What we don't get, and never have, is the influence that the super-moneyed entities enjoy. But this is nothing new.

But its not all bad. We live in the greatest country in the world at the greatest time ever to be alive. Enjoy it!
 
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#314
#314
Danl said:
That's a list of political scandals and Gov shortcomings. Not to dismiss any of them, but do you really believe that there are more or worse political scandals and shortcomings now than in the past?

But that doesn't answer my question about your post about you or I losing control over the gov. Can you address that?
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I would say the 17th amendment was a mistake as it took power from the states, which gives less influence to the individual. Also the federal reserve act essentially took monetary policy out of the hands of the government.

Repealing those two, along with the IRS would be a good start.
 
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#316
#316
Danl said:
I think I understand what you're saying.

Its a matter of perspective. This crap has been going on in governments, all governments, since long before our founding fathers. Its going on now. It will continue to go on, more or less unabated, til kingdom come. Further, common folk like you and I have never (never, ever) had much to say about it. The perception that there was a time when we did is a myth. We get one vote each, now as ever. What we don't get, and never have, is the influence that the super-moneyed entities enjoy. But this is nothing new.

But its not all bad. We live in the greatest country in the world at the greatest time ever to be alive. Enjoy it!
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We'll have to disagree on that last paragraph, I think we are heading down a bad road in this country. Too many are willing to sit idle with the mentality "nothing I can do about"
 
#318
#318
red butler said:
I would say the 17th amendment was a mistake as it took power from the states, which gives less influence to the individual. Also the federal reserve act essentially took monetary policy out of the hands of the government.

Repealing those two, along with the IRS would be a good start.
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I'm all for it. And, lucky for us, there is a constitutional method for doing just that! I'm just not sure that exercising our constitutional rights to do so would qualify as a revolution.
 
#319
#319
OrangeWayOfLife said:
We'll have to disagree on that last paragraph, I think we are heading down a bad road in this country. Too many are willing to sit idle with the mentality "nothing I can do about"
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No, there's lots we can, collectively, do about it. The constitution provides for changing just about anything.

If you don't mind, how old are you?
 
#322
#322
I could sit here and say certain periods of our short history as a nation, but it's all speculation from what I've read in history books. I'd honestly liked to have lived in the early days of the new country, or turn of the 19th century. Speculation of course, however, I don't believe the federal government was ever intended to be the domestic force it is today, I think we live under the most oppression today since the independence revolution, and I only see it getting continually worse.
 
#323
#323
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I could sit here and say certain periods of our short history as a nation, but it's all speculation from what I've read in history books. I'd honestly liked to have lived in the early days of the new country, or turn of the 19th century. Speculation of course, however, I don't believe the federal government was ever intended to be the domestic force it is today, I think we live under the most oppression today since the independence revolution, and I only see it getting continually worse.
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Pick a time in history that you've speculated about. Now really think about how your day to day life would be there and then. What you would have to do just to survive and provide for a family? Think about the available science and medicine you would have access to. Think about the housing and public utilities available to you. Think about what dangers you and your family might face just living your life.

Now, think about the choices and opportunities you have today vs then.
 
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#324
#324
Danl said:
No, there's lots we can, collectively, do about it. The constitution provides for changing just about anything.

If you don't mind, how old are you?
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Unfortunately, it can be extremely difficult to pass certain hot button legislation due to the Supreme Courts (rightful) ability to strike down laws. Amendments require the ratification of 30 something states
 
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