Where's the faith in CBJ?

#126
#126
sjt18 said:
Because that isn't the whole story... and you really refuse to see the rest of it. There ARE, as I have repeated and listed, many positives... some things I have called "elite". But there have also been shortcomings and failures. And, most importantly, the wins have not come yet. I can call '14 an improvement and be satisfied in that... but I make no apologies for not giving Jones complete faith and trust for winning six regular season games. Dooley did that. Kiffin did that. Fulmer only failed to do at least that twice.



Ockham (if you are going to invoke someone you should at least spell their name right) developed a rule that governed situations where facts weren't arbitrarily ignored to create artificial simplicity.

You... are self-deluding. You will not allow yourself to consider inconvenient facts that might shake your faith in a "simple" answer.
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I"m surprised such a detail would stump you as both are used interchangably. Yes , I sort of set you up realizing how quickly you would fall for it. LOL....Sorry, that was a bit rude of me.

I absolutely consider facts however I choose to do so without a preconceived agenda to find fault. You have every right to do this of course, as I have the right to comment. Lest we forget, this is a forum not a Butch Bashers Club and SJT Admiration Society. That is the part I really think you have issue with and the part I find so funny. LOL
 
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#127
#127
majorvol said:
As long as the D-lineman and O-lineman aren't jumping ship. I didn't realize how good of job Coach Fulmer did in putting such a emphasis on depth in these areas.
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Agreed.

The wide receivers bolting don't bother me as much as a guy like Sawyers in particular. They see they are getting recruited over and will have a hard time jumping North, Malone, Howard, Smith barring injury.

There is never enough depth at defensive line IMO.

That's what part of what got Fulmer in trouble, he got in bad shape on O line and D line. Kiffin's o line in 2009 was pretty shoddy by SEC standards.
 
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#128
#128
sjt18 said:
blah
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MedicT said:
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You guys need to take it to email, or call each other up, or go on a date to work it out, or something. The rest of us don't care who wins your inane pillow fight. We're here to talk about football. When the two of you are talking about football, you can be very insightful. Just lay off the e-cred competition. Okay? :good!:
 
#129
#129
MedicT said:
I absolutely consider facts however I choose to do so without a preconceived agenda to find fault.
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No. You do so with a preconceived agenda to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your predetermined conclusion. You do it consistently.... and so intentionally that "self-delusion" is really the only accurate description I can think of.

You have every right to do this of course, as I have the right to comment. Lest we forget, this is a forum not a Butch Bashers Club and SJT Admiration Society. That is the part I really think you have issue with and the part I find so funny. LOL
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Case in point. I have been very complimentary of Jones in many ways. But that doesn't fit your agenda. So you have to lie to yourself and pretend that I'm tearing him down or whatever. And when confronted about your self-delusion, false statements, false characterizations, et al... you make personal attacks to start an argument as you tried to do above. If you didn't know down deep that you were wrong... you wouldn't need to do that.
 
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#130
#130
VFL-82-JP said:
You guys need to take it to email, or call each other up, or go on a date to work it out, or something. The rest of us don't care who wins your inane pillow fight. We're here to talk about football. When the two of you are talking about football, you can be very insightful. Just lay off the e-cred competition. Okay? :good!:
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We're fine. Just harmless jousting. At the end of the day, he's a Vol fan... somewhat delusional... but a Vol fan. I'm a Vol fan. He probably won't admit this but I'm also supportive of and hopeful about Jones.

BTW, if that Richmond thing comes off like it looks like it is going to... it will be one of the most amazing recruiting jobs I have ever seen from anyone. Fulmer was a great recruiter as are Miles, Richt, and Saban. They've never done anything that impressive. It hasn't been all that long ago that there were some seemingly credible reports that Richmond was recruiting UT commits for Ole Miss.
 
#131
#131
Fella's, I'm only having a little fun nothing else. Having played some ball in my time, like many others here, I get a kick out of anyone who wants to look at football from a purely statistical point of view. Heck I have seen coaches do the same thing and found it just as funny. I have absolutely no personal issue with SJT. I will continue to read his posts and I'm sure will occasionally see some humor. No harm, no foul.
 
#132
#132
sjt18 said:
We're fine. Just harmless jousting. At the end of the day, he's a Vol fan... somewhat delusional... but a Vol fan. I'm a Vol fan.
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MedicT said:
Fella's, I'm only having a little fun nothing else. ... I have absolutely no personal issue with SJT. ... No harm, no foul.
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Heh, ok, you both had me fooled. Disregard all after bonjour, carry on! :clapping:
 
#133
#133
Posters like MedicT will not allow anyone else to have anything but a 100% positive attitude about everything related to the program. Any attempt to disagree with MedicT and company will result in them flaming away at you accusing you of the very thing they are doing.

It is a waste of breath to try to reason with them, they feel the same about us, but it is fun to try.

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD WHERE DICSUSSION HAPPEN....DIFFERING OPINIONS ARE WHAT MAKES THIS WORK.
 
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#134
#134
But then you have the sensitve types who always seem to get their feelings hurt. Hey, I'm a big old defensive tackle. I guess sensitivity ain't my strong point. LOL
 
#136
#136
MedicT...Really, YOU not sensitive????

Anywho, Butch's ability remains to be proved. Recruiting is good. Coach Speak is very good. Player development = ? Winning close games = ? Oc Hire = who cares.
 
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#137
#137
The Tall Gguy said:
MedicT...Really, YOU not sensitive????

Anywho, Butch's ability remains to be proved. Recruiting is good. Coach Speak is very good. Player development = ? Winning close games = ? Oc Hire = who cares.
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Did you intentionally leave out the bowl invitation and win or was that a simple mistake?
 
#138
#138
The Tall Gguy said:
MedicT...Really, YOU not sensitive????

Anywho, Butch's ability remains to be proved. Recruiting is good. Coach Speak is very good. Player development = ? Winning close games = ? Oc Hire = who cares.
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I think JRM, McNeil, O'Brien, and others like them are more indicative of Jones' ability to develop players. IMHO, it may be a greater strength than his recruiting which is exceptional.
 
#139
#139
MedicT said:
Did you intentionally leave out the bowl invitation and win or was that a simple mistake?
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Do you really want to talk wins and losses or just what suits your ends?

This is another example of what you do. You accuse him of ignoring something you find positive. Well, if you insist then don't howl and whine when someone else brings up Vandy, UFX2, UGA, Mizzou, etc. No, you want to "intentionally" leave those things out, right?
 
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#140
#140
sjt18 said:
Do you really want to talk wins and losses or just what suits your ends?

This is another example of what you do. You accuse him of ignoring something you find positive. Well, if you insist then don't howl and whine when someone else brings up Vandy, UFX2, UGA, Mizzou, etc. No, you want to "intentionally" leave those things out, right?
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What a post such as yours does, in my opinion, is point out your simpletons view of the game of football. Improvements are readily apparent in all aspects of the program IF you know enough about the game to recognize it.
 
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#141
#141
MedicT said:
What a post such as yours does, in my opinion, is point out your simpletons view of the game of football. Improvements are readily apparent in all aspects of the program IF you know enough about the game to recognize it.
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sjt18 clearly understands more about the game than you do, which is why he can write thoughtful intelligent posts citing a broad range of facts, while you rely on childish insults.
 
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#143
#143
oregonvol said:
sjt18 clearly understands more about the game than you do, which is why he can write thoughtful intelligent posts citing a broad range of facts, while you rely on childish insults.
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Hey kid, throwing a childish insult in an effort to accuse someone of a childish insult does not make for an effective argument. :)
 
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#144
#144
MedicT said:
What a post such as yours does, in my opinion, is point out your simpletons view of the game of football. Improvements are readily apparent in all aspects of the program IF you know enough about the game to recognize it.
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If it is "simpleton" to believe that improvements in all aspects of the program will result in improved wins and losses... then go ahead and count me in. I'll go a step further. If it is possible to improve "all aspects of the program" WITHOUT improving performance on the field as measured by wins... then count me out. There's one ultimate goal- to WIN.

Once again you try to mischaracterize what someone says because it is inconvenient to you...
 
#146
#146
sjt18 said:
If it is "simpleton" to believe that improvements in all aspects of the program will result in improved wins and losses... then go ahead and count me in. I'll go a step further. If it is possible to improve "all aspects of the program" WITHOUT improving performance on the field as measured by wins... then count me out. There's one ultimate goal- to WIN.

Once again you try to mischaracterize what someone says because it is inconvenient to you...
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As simple as, "you can't put the cart before the horse." Are you also in denial of the bowl win? Or is that you realize giving Jones credit would further erode your credibility?

My interest in the game lies deeper than a childish view of wins only. I realize what it takes to achieve that goal and see it coming together under Jones. You can't win until the fundamentals are in place and you, who obviously have little first hand knowledge of the game, can't see it because you can't reduce it to a statistic.
 
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#147
#147
Ok we all know he won the bowl game. But their are many people out there that would agree that winning one game does not mean the team is suddenly much better.
Take the USCe game for example. People used that game to try and say the O had suddenly improved and the line was suddenly good. Then the vandy, yes vandy, game happened and our suddenly great O and much better line struggled against one of the worst all around teams in the country.

My point is one game means NOTHING when you ignore all the variables. Sure we stomped a team that had a better regular season record than us. But you're ignoring the fact that they got that record playing in the B1G and they were coming in after a disappointing season while we were coming in with hype. Its not hard to imagine that the Iowa team had little to no interest in the outcome of that game.
 
#148
#148
JFBanicki said:
Ok we all know he won the bowl game. But their are many people out there that would agree that winning one game does not mean the team is suddenly much better.
Take the USCe game for example. People used that game to try and say the O had suddenly improved and the line was suddenly good. Then the vandy, yes vandy, game happened and our suddenly great O and much better line struggled against one of the worst all around teams in the country.

My point is one game means NOTHING when you ignore all the variables. Sure we stomped a team that had a better regular season record than us. But you're ignoring the fact that they got that record playing in the B1G and they were coming in after a disappointing season while we were coming in with hype. Its not hard to imagine that the Iowa team had little to no interest in the outcome of that game.
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The USC game was extremely interesting in regards to how the season played out and is perceived.
 
#149
#149
JFBanicki said:
Ok we all know he won the bowl game. But their are many people out there that would agree that winning one game does not mean the team is suddenly much better.
Take the USCe game for example. People used that game to try and say the O had suddenly improved and the line was suddenly good. Then the vandy, yes vandy, game happened and our suddenly great O and much better line struggled against one of the worst all around teams in the country.

My point is one game means NOTHING when you ignore all the variables. Sure we stomped a team that had a better regular season record than us. But you're ignoring the fact that they got that record playing in the B1G and they were coming in after a disappointing season while we were coming in with hype. Its not hard to imagine that the Iowa team had little to no interest in the outcome of that game.
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One variable that gets ignored is that same Iowa team lost to 2-10 Iowa State
 
#150
#150
I fully recognize we have contributors who are absolutely determined to see failure. I do however, reserve the right to have a little fun with them when they refuse to acknowledge the fact. LOL
 
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