Ukraine Protests

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#6,476
#6,476
volprof said:
Foundations of Geopolitics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Based on this summary, a lot of Kremlin talking points sound like projection.

The book declares that "the battle for the world rule of [ethnic] Russians" has not ended and Russia remains "the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution." The Eurasian Empire will be constructed "on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA, and the refusal to allow liberal values to dominate us."[1]

Military operations play relatively little role. The textbook believes in a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries.
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#6,477
#6,477
Velo Vol said:
Based on this summary, a lot of Kremlin talking points sound like projection.
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For us in Russia, communism is a dead dog, while, for many people in the West, it is still a living lion.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Again, you all are still fighting the last war. America and Russia have swapped positions. We are becoming more of a socialist tyranny and Russia is moving towards capitalism and the principles of the Founding Fathers...
 
#6,480
#6,480
Pacer92 said:
http://rt.com/news/226079-ukraine-foreign-military-mariupol/

I didn't know Mariupol was a vacation destination for US military?
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oh no mercs. a government which has been having its rear handed to it goes outside its own insufficient means and hires some guys. and unless you missed it Mauripol was a defensive line for Ukraine. they didn't start an offensive there, so if they (kiev) had mercs sitting there already it was for defensive purposes. and when was the last time America tried to annex a piece of Ukraine?
 
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#6,481
#6,481
Rasputin_Vol said:
It made no sense for the Greeks to be forced into supporting Russian sanctions when Greece has been in a depression. They need commerce to survive and having the US and the central banks in other parts of Europe hold their feet to the fire on sanctions is wicked.

How am I the only one that sees this?
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so instead you continue to let them spend themselves into death? Isn't that half of your problem with America? Country A does nothing to curb spending and buys its way into national problems, Country B already in worse debt than A (by percentage) is part of a collective with tied finicial policies and is forced to curb its spending so as not to bring down the system. and both of those situations are wrong to you?

you are arguing against the solution to a problem you have proposed yourself.
 
#6,482
#6,482
Rasputin_Vol said:
Exactly. We have military assets in Poland and The Baltics. The ultimate plan is to extend that to Georgia and Ukraine.

How is Russia supposed to respond when they are clearly encircling them and antagonizing them?
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yeah we almost have them too. of russias 12,577 miles of land borders, if we have those two countries we will have an astounding 1,676 miles (estimated couldnt find hard numbers on Georgia). just for S&Gs i included estonia the only other country and the total goes up to 1826. yup we clearly have them encircled. from one side, with a bunch of countries with no significant military, as Russia has proved with invading 2 of the 3 in the last decade+.

and yeah it must be very antagonizing for those countries to have their own free will and operate outside of Kremlin control.
 
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#6,483
#6,483
red butler said:
I agree that Wall Street is not a nation, which is why I said earlier that I don't really consider it American foreign policy. I look at it through the lens that the Wall Street types own the politicians and have tremendous influence on foreign policy decisions.

As for poor countries, most of the worlds gold and diamonds are mined in some of the poorest countries in Africa. Many agricultural products come from Central America. General Smedley Butler wrote about his involvement in setting up banana republics for US fruit corp in his book "war is a racket".

Asian countries like Vietnam have a lot of resources we need like rubber. Heck, Michelin had a pretty substantial investment in rubber plantations over there up until the end of the war.
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one resource a nation does not make. except for the oil countries, who has a successful economy based on just one resource. and even then with oil, with prices down right now they are taking huge hits. the countries have to have multiple bases for the economy. and when it is just a primary resource in a small country there is huge corruption in the companies of that resource. how are they supposed to get rich/crawl out of the pit when their own people are holding them down?
 
#6,485
#6,485
LouderVol said:
oh no mercs. a government which has been having its rear handed to it goes outside its own insufficient means and hires some guys. and unless you missed it Mauripol was a defensive line for Ukraine. they didn't start an offensive there, so if they (kiev) had mercs sitting there already it was for defensive purposes. and when was the last time America tried to annex a piece of Ukraine?
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They don't annex countries. They fund coups and then blame any backlash on Russian aggression.
 
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#6,487
#6,487
Velo Vol said:
Get a grip on reality.
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Speaking of which

TASS: Russia - Putin calls Ukrainian army ‘NATO legion’ with geopolitical aim to contain Russia

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday called the Ukrainian army “a NATO legion” that has the geopolitical goal to contain Russia.

“In essence, this is already not an army, but a foreign legion, in this case NATO’s foreign legion that certainly does not pursue the goal of defending Ukraine’s national interests,” the president said.

“It has quite different goals — geopolitical containing of Russia, which is absolutely inconsistent with the national interests of the Ukrainian people,” Putin said at a meeting with students of the Gorny National Mineral Resources University.
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#6,489
#6,489
LouderVol said:
one resource a nation does not make. except for the oil countries, who has a successful economy based on just one resource. and even then with oil, with prices down right now they are taking huge hits. the countries have to have multiple bases for the economy. and when it is just a primary resource in a small country there is huge corruption in the companies of that resource. how are they supposed to get rich/crawl out of the pit when their own people are holding them down?
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Certainly there is more to an economy than one resource, but most of these countries have other resources as well. Let's look at the US economy for comparison. Our major sectors are financial, government, service industry, retail, and health care. It's not like these sectors create value, they are really a cost of doing business. (maybe one of the reasons our country is declining).

Yes many of these countries are corrupt, that's where the term banana republic comes from. But how much of that corruption has been influenced by US corporations? A good book on this matter is "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". If an uncorruptable leader does get elected, they don't seem to have a long life-span. Even if the leaders aren't corrupt, how will the people ever rise out of poverty if all the assets are owned by foreign corporations?

To be clear, I'm not saying this imperial structure is a bad thing because I haven't decided. Sure, on the surface it looks bad; but I don't know what the alternative would look like. It may be even more chaotic.
 
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#6,490
#6,490
If it wasn't for the fact that people are dying, I would say the script for the Ukrainian War reads like that of a slapstick comedy.

https://news.vice.com/article/russi...ocket-attack-that-killed-civilians-in-ukraine

On Saturday, as bodies were still being retrieved from the rubble in Mariupol, Zakharchenko claimed responsibility for the assault and promised a broader attack was underway. "Today the offensive on Mariupol has begun… this is the best possible monument to our dead," he said, laying a wreath of flowers at a memorial service in Donetsk for the 13 people killed in a mortar attack on a trolleybus stop two days before. "God in a few days willing we will close the boiler of Debaltseve and avenge the killing of our people," he added to cheers from the crowd.

But just a few hours later in a bizarre interview with a Russian state-media television channel, the rebel leader retracted the boast and claimed exactly the opposite. "We are not beasts, we do not hide behind civilians… Mariupol will be liberated but not using the methods of Kiev," he told Russia 24.
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#6,491
#6,491
red butler said:
Certainly there is more to an economy than one resource, but most of these countries have other resources as well. Let's look at the US economy for comparison. Our major sectors are financial, government, service industry, retail, and health care. It's not like these sectors create value, they are really a cost of doing business. (maybe one of the reasons our country is declining).

Yes many of these countries are corrupt, that's where the term banana republic comes from. But how much of that corruption has been influenced by US corporations? A good book on this matter is "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". If an uncorruptable leader does get elected, they don't seem to have a long life-span. Even if the leaders aren't corrupt, how will the people ever rise out of poverty if all the assets are owned by foreign corporations?

To be clear, I'm not saying this imperial structure is a bad thing because I haven't decided. Sure, on the surface it looks bad; but I don't know what the alternative would look like. It may be even more chaotic.
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Good post.
 
#6,493
#6,493
Rasputin_Vol said:
Again, you all are still fighting the last war. America and Russia have swapped positions. We are becoming more of a socialist tyranny and Russia is moving towards capitalism and the principles of the Founding Fathers...
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I feel like this is a valid talking point. Not entirely sure that I agree with the entire premise but the thought and the way our nation keeps moving left of center leads one to believe this has some validity.
 
#6,495
#6,495
82_VOL_83 said:
I feel like this is a valid talking point. Not entirely sure that I agree with the entire premise but the thought and the way our nation keeps moving left of center leads one to believe this has some validity.
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The comparison is made relative to Russia.

Imagine the outrage here if the military conducted a raid on Fox News in NYC.

But you're not going to hear about this from Rasputin_Vol, because he's not looking at the real world.
 
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#6,498
#6,498
Burhead said:
Ukraine rebels move to encircle government troops in new advance | Reuters

The next major defeat of the Ukrainian Army appears to be Debaltseve as the separatists attempt to encircle the Ukrainian defenders. If nothing is done soon the Ukrainian Army will likely collapse and Putin could drive all the way to Kiev. Meanwhile all Poroshenko does is fiddle as Rome burns.
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On the one hand, I sympathize with the guy, because he's obviously having to fight this war with one hand tied behind his back, regarding avoiding unnecessary civilian casualties and still trying to court ethnic Russians (and not alienate them) in the possibility that Ukraine wins the war. (The Russian side, meanwhile, has no such obligations or considerations.) On the other hand, however, he's either got to commit to this all out or go ahead and cede the east to Russia and let them have it. A half-ass approach will not accomplish anything.

Poroshenko has two options, and only two options:

1. Bomb the **** out of the east till it's 1999 Grozny (but risk alienating ethnic Russians and incurring an all-out Russian invasion in the process)

or

2. Grant them independence and let them be (ceding his nation's sovereignty in the process and pragmatically making him look weak and probably cutting his political career premature).

Pretty poor options. I wouldn't want to be him.
 
#6,499
#6,499
http://rt.com/business/226435-standard-poors-rating-junk/

It's been a busy day on RT. Thus far, the US has:

1. Sabotaged a Greek F-16 in Spain for the results of the recent Greece elections.

2. Started a fire in Jean-Marie Le Pen's apartment.

3. Instigated Russia's credit down-rating.

4. Launched a "NATO legion" in eastern Ukraine that is fighting to contain Russia, apparently from its intentions of taking over half the ex-Soviet world (latter part not mentioned).

5. Has stood against the encouragement of anti-European rightist and leftist parties, while ironically encouraging Nazism.

and, last but not least,

6. Aided and abetted Saudia terrorism while also serving their Jewish masters.

Very busy day.
 
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#6,500
#6,500
volprof said:
On the one hand, I sympathize with the guy, because he's obviously having to fight this war with one hand tied behind his back, regarding avoiding unnecessary civilian casualties and still trying to court ethnic Russians (and not alienate them) in the possibility that Ukraine wins the war. (The Russian side, meanwhile, has no such obligations or considerations.) On the other hand, however, he's either got to commit to this all out or go ahead and cede the east to Russia and let them have it. A half-ass approach will not accomplish anything.

Poroshenko has two options, and only two options:

1. Bomb the **** out of the east till it's 1999 Grozny (but risk alienating ethnic Russians and incurring an all-out Russian invasion in the process)

or

2. Grant them independence and let them be (ceding his nation's sovereignty in the process and pragmatically making him look weak and probably cutting his political career premature).

Pretty poor options. I wouldn't want to be him.
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He needs to declare total mobilization of the military and defense industry now. He also needs to stop referring to them as terrorists and call them Russian soldiers. Let's face it, this is not an "Anti-Terror Operation". Poroshenko needs to understand that his country is at war with Russia and nothing short of full mobilization can save Ukraine at this point. He is blind to that fact. They also need to purge the General Staff because they have idiots running the show as it stands right now. I think this tweet shows how out of touch the Ukrainian state is right now;

@noclador Jan 20

Nobody will help Ukraine, b/c 9 months after war began:

44m #Ukraine has 50,000 troops at front
4m #Croatia had 130,000 troops at front
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If he doesn't start taking this seriously he'll either lose the country or his head to the volunteer battalions as they turn their guns on Kiev.
 
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