Chris Kyle: American hero or

#505
#505
SamRebel35 said:
I don't think it is wise to teach young Americans that all you need to do to gain fame, adoration, and notoriety from an entire nation of your peers is to go to the desert and shoot brown people with a sniper rifle. What he did may have been necessary from a tactical standpoint at the time. Taking lives, even ones that our country deems as evil, should never be done with a flippant or callous attitude. It is still a human person with skin and bones.
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Racist. (color) But you are right, it is much much better to teach young people that the way to fame adoration and wealth is to become the next Lebron James or Tom Brady.
 
#508
#508
Weezer said:
I guess it's all in how you teach your children. My way would be to tell them war is an evil thing that sometimes becomes necessary. It makes good men do bad things, but they do these things in an attempt to create a better world. Hopefully his aim was true, and innocent lives were spared, but he certainly helped protect and at times save the lives of his fellow soldiers. That he protected his fellow soldiers alone is heroic in my mind. You can debate whether we belonged there or not, but that decision was made by politicians. Soldiers don't get to make that decision. We throw them into hell and ask them not only to survive, but to win as well. Chris Kyle survived. He helped fellow soldiers survive. Whether or not we won anything is up for debate.

Kyle may have had a bit of hubris, never an attractive quality, but he did his duty, and by all accounts, with distinction. Dislike his character if you want, but we should never discount his service to his country. Maybe it's because I grew up in a military family, but I do see him as somewhat of a hero. I hate to use the term outright hero because I put no one on that pedestal. Even the most heroic are still human, capable of fallibility. But I do believe he did heroic things in his life.


And no, I don't think you're a communist, nor should you be beheaded by ISIS.
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Good post Weezer
 
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#510
#510
Grand Vol said:
They sure aren't paying for a football coach, that's for certain.

I'm curious to see how Beaty does up there.
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He'll fail. KU reps only want to highlight his recruiting and coaching success under Mangino while saying nothing of his offense's abysmal failure under Turner Gil.

KU should have waited (certainly Beatty was not going anywhere else) and at least thrown a brinks truck at Harbough.
 
#521
#521
Grand Vol said:
How many lives did he save by taking those 160 lives?
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How many poor and destitute children did he leave without a mother or father that were killed because they were convicted by the judge/jury/executioner for being Iraqi and in the wrong place at the wrong time?

How many ISIS fighters started out as a son/nephew left without a family that in turn were easy targets for the ISIS/AQI/etc powers that turned them into front line fighters?

How many of those kids in turn buried a 122mm shell under a road that destroyed a HUMVEE or were used as a human bomb and killed dozens or hundreds of innocent Iraqis in line to sign up to be a policeman/soldier to protect their homeland?

This is the overarching strategy that Kyle didn't concern himself with. He sees the battlefield as a static entity but it's a very dynamic one. Guys like Kyle, honestly, have little place in a conflict like Iraq where there are no set front lines and the enemy are wearing uniforms to designate themselves combatants and everyone is following the Geneva Convention.

For the same reason a guy like Patton would have no place in Iraq. Kyle was an excellent marksman and definitely the type of guy I'd want watching over me if we were in a conventional war.

Being on the JCS requires equal parts political intrigue as it does military strategy. This is modern warfare and Kyle stood as almost an antithesis to it.
 
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#522
#522
agent|orange said:
How many poor and destitute children did he leave without a mother or father that were killed because they were convicted by the judge/jury/executioner for being Iraqi and in the wrong place at the wrong time?

How many ISIS fighters started out as a son/nephew left without a family that in turn were easy targets for the ISIS/AQI/etc powers that turned them into front line fighters?

How many of those kids in turn buried a 122mm shell under a road that destroyed a HUMVEE or were used as a human bomb and killed dozens or hundreds of innocent Iraqis in line to sign up to be a policeman/soldier to protect their homeland?

This is the overarching strategy that Kyle didn't concern himself with. He sees the battlefield as a static entity but it's a very dynamic one. Guys like Kyle, honestly, have little place in a conflict like Iraq where there are no set front lines and the enemy are wearing uniforms to designate themselves combatants and everyone is following the Geneva Convention.

For the same reason a guy like Patton would have no place in Iraq. Kyle was an excellent marksman and definitely the type of guy I'd want watching over me if we were in a conventional war.

Being on the JCS requires equal parts political intrigue as it does military strategy. This is modern warfare and Kyle stood as almost an antithesis to it.
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I agree with parts of your post, however I have a question for you. How many innocent citizens did he kill?
 
#523
#523
n_huffhines said:
What if you started out with a pro-military, pro-police bias, and then you were convinced our military and police forces should be used differently.

Just as biased as people that have always been pro-military?
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My pro military bias comes from actually having carried that water. Like others here have said, I have seen guys and gals that would have otherwise been a drain on society become productive members. And to those that question the sacrifice, I will say that you shouldn't criticize until you walk in those shoes. Being away from family for 6-8 months at a time and in some cases a year or more is a sacrifice that you cannot relate to if you haven't done it. That doesn't even touch on the potential to get oneself killed in that process. The potential for that ultimate sacrifice if much more pronounced in that line of work. Most military people that I know don't want your admiration.. they simply want you to stay out of their way, and to provide them with the tools and equipment they need to do the job that you are asking them to do.
 
#524
#524
agent|orange said:
How many poor and destitute children did he leave without a mother or father that were killed because they were convicted by the judge/jury/executioner for being Iraqi and in the wrong place at the wrong time?

How many ISIS fighters started out as a son/nephew left without a family that in turn were easy targets for the ISIS/AQI/etc powers that turned them into front line fighters?

How many of those kids in turn buried a 122mm shell under a road that destroyed a HUMVEE or were used as a human bomb and killed dozens or hundreds of innocent Iraqis in line to sign up to be a policeman/soldier to protect their homeland?

This is the overarching strategy that Kyle didn't concern himself with. He sees the battlefield as a static entity but it's a very dynamic one. Guys like Kyle, honestly, have little place in a conflict like Iraq where there are no set front lines and the enemy are wearing uniforms to designate themselves combatants and everyone is following the Geneva Convention.

For the same reason a guy like Patton would have no place in Iraq. Kyle was an excellent marksman and definitely the type of guy I'd want watching over me if we were in a conventional war.

Being on the JCS requires equal parts political intrigue as it does military strategy. This is modern warfare and Kyle stood as almost an antithesis to it.
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It wasn't his job to concern himself with that! Holy shizz! He was an enlisted man following orders, to lump him in with Patton shows complete ignorance on your part.

BTW I disagree with you, give a guy like Patton the tools and latitude and he'd have taken and pacified Iraq within 3-6 months.
 
#525
#525
jp1 said:
I agree with parts of your post, however I have a question for you. How many innocent citizens did he kill?
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PLA invades America after Canadian terrorists blow up a building in china. Do you sit on your hands or do you fight? Are you a terrorist or are you in a ****ty situation?
 
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