Chris Kyle: American hero or

#378
#378
jp1 said:
Seriously? That is a pretty dumbass question and I have given you the benefit of the doubt to this point.

Sacrifice? Because he had a choice it wasnt a sacrifice? Stand in his shoes for 1 second and then re-ask your ridiculous question.
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What is dumb about the question?
 
#379
#379
SamRebel35 said:
I'm cool with it, believe me.
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It's anyone's choice to join or not as we have a volunteer military and that's a decision I respect no matter who makes it or for what reason.

But in this case, it limits your perspective on things like this.
 
#381
#381
SamRebel35 said:
Define sacrifice. And as for their "choices", you are basically saying they are robots. They can't control their own brain. That they don't have free will. If they aren't in control of their decisions, then how can we ever call them heroes. He might as well have been a machine on a hill being controlled by someone a million miles away if he didn't have any choice in the matter.
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You can't be serious
 
#384
#384
Grand Vol said:
It's anyone's choice to join or not as we have a volunteer military and that's a decision I respect no matter who makes it or for what reason.

But in this case, it limits your perspective on things like this.
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In this matter, everyone's perspective is either limited, or biased.
 
#385
#385
SamRebel35 said:
What is dumb about the question?
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You seem to question his sacrifice because he enlisted (his choice), decided to train as a SEAL (his choice), went to Iraq to fight in war (not his choice), shot people to protect himself and his men (his choice), and go on multiple tours doing this (may
or may not have been his choice).

He didnt decide if the war was just or not. He was given a job to do by our country and he did it. That equals sacrifice.
 
#386
#386
SamRebel35 said:
Everyone's perspective is limited.
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No, some have a far better perspective on things than you do. But in turn that can make them extremely biased in their decision making.

Kyle did what he was trained to do and furthermore, did it very well.
 
#388
#388
jp1 said:
You seem to question his sacrifice because he enlisted (his choice), decided to train as a SEAL (his choice), went to Iraq to fight in war (not his choice), shot people to protect himself and his men (his choice), and go on multiple tours doing this (may
or may not have been his choice).

He didnt decide if the war was just or not. He was given a job to do by our country and he did it. That equals sacrifice.
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He has free will. He can't be forced to do anything that his brain or his heart haven't granted permission.

And your definition of sacrifice is doing a job that our country tells us to do? That's a new one to me.
 
#391
#391
SamRebel35 said:
He has free will. He can't be forced to do anything that his brain or his heart haven't granted permission.

And your definition of sacrifice is doing a job that our country tells us to do? That's a new one to me.
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No my definition of sacrifice in this case is....

1. Being away from his wife, kids, other family
2. Putting himself in harms way every second of every day that he was on the battlefield.
3. Living with the consequences of what he did and saw every waking hour of his post war life.

I can go on and on. Did he have a choice to avoid all of the above? You're damn right he did, but he SACRIFICED that for what he thought was right.
 
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#393
#393
SamRebel35 said:
He killed 160 people.
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Fair enough....so all servicemen and women are off your hero list eligibility. Because when they signed up surely they thought far enough ahead and figured they may have to kill somebody in a given situation.
 
#395
#395
jp1 said:
Fair enough....so all servicemen and women are off your hero list eligibility. Because when they signed up surely they thought far enough ahead and figured they may have to kill somebody in a given situation.
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Not exactly.
 
#396
#396
SamRebel35 said:
Good question.
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I'm not going to try to convince you of anything because you've made your mind up already. But I will say this:

Countless numbers of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines got to come home to their families and loved ones because this man did some things that are morally questionable in your eyes. And honestly, the number will never be known as the trickle down effect was likely in play and he saved countless more in the future because of removing threats at the time he did. He kept people alive and ended up making the ultimate sacrifice by helping people all the way to his mortal end. He selflessly helped veterans with PTSD and for that, he's a hero in my book.

Think about the culmination of his life before you answer.
 
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#397
#397
SamRebel35 said:
Define sacrifice. And as for their "choices", you are basically saying they are robots. They can't control their own brain. That they don't have free will. If they aren't in control of their decisions, then how can we ever call them heroes. He might as well have been a machine on a hill being controlled by someone a million miles away if he didn't have any choice in the matter.
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I'll play along. The question is where to begin. First, when you enlist, you sacrifice much of your freedom. You are subject to orders. Disobeying orders is not a valid option in most cases. If they deploy you to a hell hole to fight, you can't simply decline because you don't feel like going. Your ass is geared up and sent into combat. When bullets start flying, it's kill or be killed. The only support you have are the brothers right there in that hell with you. They are your family and you will give your life for them, just as they would give their lives for you. That is honor.

Now let's talk about the sacrifice of the family. These men are shipped off to battle and separated from those they love for extremely long periods of time. They know the last time they saw their family may have been the last time they ever saw their family. And the family is also well aware that their loved one going off to war may not come home alive. You live in a state of anxiety hoping they come home safe.

And there will of course be people who argue they chose to enlist. Guess what, if not enough men and women enlisted, they'd reinstate the draft because the military must retain a certain strength. So those who do make the choice, those who do sacrifice their very existence, they're saving the asses of those who don't want to serve their country.

You speak of choice, but a soldier's choices are so very much more limited than those of a private citizen. They sacrifice a traditional life so that others can have that traditional life.
 
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#400
#400
Grand Vol said:
He selflessly helped veterans with PTSD and for that, he's a hero in my book.

Think about the culmination of his life before you answer.
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This is reasonable. I've said it before, I don't find fault with people that regard him as a hero. I despise the unthinking reactions based purely on national pride, but if people engage in thinking before coming to their decision, I'm cool with it.

His work with ptsd people was selfless. I will not dispute that.
 
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