The Official Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist Thread

#702
#702
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
lol...It's been many years since I played Halo so my apologies not to recognize Chief.
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It's all good. Just a bunch of guys that made short videos about the HALO game and what they would talk about while playing.

And closer to the truth on real soldiers than they know lol
 
#703
#703
Grand Vol said:
It's all good. Just a bunch of guys that made short videos about the HALO game and what they would talk about while playing.

And closer to the truth on real soldiers than they know lol
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Those dudes did a great job making short videos. I think they're fun to watch.
 
#704
#704
Oh, and I don't expect an answer from you Huff. You've already chosen to ignore any valid arguments against your An-Cap theory.
 
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#705
#705
Grand Vol said:
Oh, and I don't expect an answer from you Huff. You've already chosen to ignore any valid arguments against your An-Cap theory.
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What are you talking about? "Any" valid arguments? I've talked until I'm blue in the face against valid arguments. This is so disingenuous.
 
#706
#706
Grand Vol said:
And we still have no idea how your protection agency is going to be the baddest in the land...

Let's suppose for a moment we have your An-Cap society. What's to stop me from hiring a protection company like say Blackwater? Or a form thereof. Let's face facts, those guys have (or had) no qualms about the shoot first mentality. So you send in your protection agency for me in a perceived injustice. What's to stop me from sending out my protection agency to take yours to school?

Or the TV show Jericho for example. What's to stop a security company like was portrayed there from going out and making demands of the areas under their protection? And killing those who resist?

And that's the entire argument against the An-Cap contracted law enforcement/protection. You may have some good guys out there and you will certainly have those that will abuse the system and become more powerful than society can control.
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I guess my question would be what's to stop any of that from happening under government? The answer is that it can happen with government, so the next question is, does the problem become worse under ancap? I say we don't know.
 
#707
#707
Grand Vol said:
Or I'll toss another hypothetical situation out there...

Let's say you have a farmer who is in a contract to provide a buyer with a hundred eggs every month. Said farmer has a disaster in which his flock is decimated to where he could only provide enough eggs for his family to survive until his flock is regrown. But buyer says "tough luck, but you owe me a hundred eggs no matter what. And the contract doesn't cover the situation we're in."

So the matter goes to arbitration and the arbitrator agrees with the buyer since the terms of the contract are not being fulfilled. Seller offers an alternative, but the buyer won't budge since he is supposed to receive a hundred eggs no matter what. So the buyer, being the shady slimeball he is, sends in his protection service and drags the seller away since he is not fulfilling his end of the bargain. The seller went with a low bid protection agency, or possibly even not one at all, and they are quickly removed from the equation because the arbitrator stated the seller was in the wrong and according to the "law" the seller must honor his end of the bargain.

Now is this fair to take the seller into your "humane work camp" because of events out of his control? Or to starve a family? And don't say that the buyer would be understanding since you know very well there are people out there concerned with getting paid and nothing more.

Care to list the An-Cap alternative?
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Well, I don't think the company would be willing to take the man away. If the guy says, I'll pay you back + interest, the protection agency is going to make their client take it. He's not going to be able to say to them, "I said 100 eggs or he's my slave!" This ain't some Rumpelstilskin fairy tale. Protection agencies want the best and easiest result.
 
#708
#708
n_huffhines said:
I guess my question would be what's to stop any of that from happening under government? The answer is that it can happen with government, so the next question is, does the problem become worse under ancap? I say we don't know.
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The problem becomes worse under An-Cap when there are no controls. Like it or not, police forces are bound under rule of law. And the majority stick by it. But when you introduce a corporation not bound by law or working for the highest bidder and their wishes into the equation (Blackwater for example) you can see the kinds of trouble they can create.

Yes, it can happen in a governmental system. But the An-Cap system creates an environment for it to become more prevalent and even easier to pull off. I said before you cannot remove human emotion from this system. And the human emotions of greed for power or wealth will not just simply go away when an An-Cap society is put into place. And again, when one company becomes more powerful than the others or society can control, that's the ballgame and you transition quickly from An-Cap to feudalism.

Do these protection agencies become worse under An-Cap? Yeah, they surely can. History shows a population generally lets itself be enslaved. And with An-Cap the population is just one step closer to plomo o plata because there are no governmental controls to regulate them. And when the highest bidder decides it's time to start using that security company to take what they want, who stops them?
 
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#709
#709
n_huffhines said:
Well, I don't think the company would be willing to take the man away. If the guy says, I'll pay you back + interest, the protection agency is going to make their client take it. He's not going to be able to say to them, "I said 100 eggs or he's my slave!" This ain't some Rumpelstilskin fairy tale. Protection agencies want the best and easiest result.
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Again, you far underestimate the human side of this. If the company refuses to do the bidding of the client, they are out of a job and I can flat guarantee he will find someone who is willing to take the man away. Like you said, the economics of this make people do devious things. And a company that is told "do this or else" may take the moral high road and say no, but there will always be one that says "yes." Again, feudalism is but one step away.

You really do best case scenario this whole concept. And completely remove the human element from this. In a fairy tale world, the knight in shining armor rolls up and collects the residents to fight off the raging hordes. In your An-Cap society and actually adding in the human element the most powerful survive. And that's whomever pays the most and has the largest security force. Protection agencies want to get paid and what their client pays them for. Not what's best.
 
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#710
#710
n_huffhines said:
Still have no idea how video games relate the economics of ancap. Yuck it up, gomers.
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Ok...... It's a nicer way of saying you live in a fantasy land or that you're delusional..... Or perhaps that you have no idea wtf you're talking about.....something along those lines......just pick which you prefer.
 
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#711
#711
n_huffhines said:
This ain't some Rumpelstilskin fairy tale. Protection agencies want the best and easiest result.
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Your last sentence is the fairy tale. There will be as much variety of motives in protection agencies as there is in companies today. The invisible hand doesn't change that - never has and never will.
 
#712
#712
Grand Vol said:
The problem becomes worse under An-Cap when there are no controls. Like it or not, police forces are bound under rule of law.
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There are controls. What you mean is that there isn't a top-down control, which is often just the illusion of rule of law.
 
#713
#713
volinbham said:
Your last sentence is the fairy tale. There will be as much variety of motives in protection agencies as there is in companies today. The invisible hand doesn't change that - never has and never will.
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If I were to ask you what makes people behave, if we got down to the root of it, your answer would be "fear of consequence".

I think fear of consequence still exists under this system. I don't know why people think fear of consequence goes away if government goes away.
 
#715
#715
n_huffhines said:
If I were to ask you what makes people behave, if we got down to the root of it, your answer would be "fear of consequence".

I think fear of consequence still exists under this system. I don't know why people think fear of consequence goes away if government goes away.
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There is no consequence to the biggest, wealthiest and best well armed agency. At least with our current system we still have the vote as a consequence to politicians "behaving badly".
 
#716
#716
hog88 said:
And what are these? What's to control the biggest, well armed and meanest?
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Future profit
Fear of retaliation/direct consequence
Concern for reputation

You can't be bigger and meaner and more well-armed than everybody else combined. Separation of powers.
 
#717
#717
hog88 said:
There is no consequence to the biggest, wealthiest and best well armed agency. At least with our current system we still have the vote as a consequence to politicians "behaving badly".
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Yeah, and that works really well in cleaning out government.

The government is the most well armed agency.

The thing you fear the most about ancap exists under government.
 
#718
#718
n_huffhines said:
Future profit
Fear of retaliation/direct consequence
Concern for reputation

You can't be bigger and meaner and more well-armed than everybody else combined. Separation of powers.
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In areas, yes you can. Hence the reference to feudalism, that is what you're ideal society would devolve to.
 
#719
#719
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, and that works really well in cleaning out government.

The government is the most well armed agency.

The thing you fear the most about ancap exists under government.
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No, I at least have some rights and recourse under our system of government. Under An-Cap, unless I'm the biggest and baddest, I have none.
 
#722
#722
hog88 said:
No, I at least have some rights and recourse under our system of government. Under An-Cap, unless I'm the biggest and baddest, I have none.
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Think of it this way. Wal Mart is the biggest and the baddest. When you return an item to their store, they don't accept it because they are legally obligated to. They do it because they follow their incentives.

My Dad dropped his TV and scratched the screen. He told Wal-Mart what happened, and they exchanged it at no charge. It's weird that my Dad had recourse outside of government, even when he was in the wrong. My Dad isn't the biggest or the baddest. Wal Mart just likes long term profitability.
 
#724
#724
n_huffhines said:
Think of it this way. Wal Mart is the biggest and the baddest. When you return an item to their store, they don't accept it because they are legally obligated to. They do it because they follow their incentives.

My Dad dropped his TV and scratched the screen. He told Wal-Mart what happened, and they exchanged it at no charge. It's weird that my Dad had recourse outside of government, even when he was in the wrong. My Dad isn't the biggest or the baddest. Wal Mart just likes long term profitability.
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Not even comparable and you know it.
 
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