The Official Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist Thread

#552
#552
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Slavery would be an act of aggression. You cannot own a human being.

Which btw, your form of government deemed acceptable.
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Absolutely it would be an act of aggression. But answer the question, if no one is willing to pony up the cash, who would stop him?
 
#553
#553
n_huffhines said:
Interesting business model for a copper mine. I wonder how you will compete in the marketplace when you add war to the cost of doing business.
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So for damaging the farmers business the punishment is armed conflict?

Man that is one crazy world you are envisioning where civil disputes are settled via armed protection agencies.



n_huffhines said:
The argument against government is that they have a monopoly on force. I mean, a gun is a tool for forced compliance. Just because I argue against government's monopoly on force doesn't mean I'm not gonna use a gun to force a home burglar to comply.
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But are you going to use a gun to enforce contract disputes? Sure sounds that way. I know, I know - that's what arbitration is for...

The larger point is that without codified laws, good people will naturally disagree on what constitutes violation of contract. Thus even if protection agencies only work for good behavior they will be defending against each other and more powerful force wins.

Given this, the market incentive is to build your protection agency into the biggest - this creates value for your customers and enhances your profitability.
 
#554
#554
hog88 said:
Absolutely it would be an act of aggression. But answer the question, if no one is willing to pony up the cash, who would stop him?
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That thing called the free market. If word got out in a free America that you were using slaves, you wouldn't be in business long. Cmon hog.
 
#555
#555
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Ok, then how can they decide for you what you can and cannot do?
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because we vested that power in them just as you are advocating we vest it in arbitrators and armed protection agencies.

either way unless you are 100% self sufficient you are surrendering control of your own behavior to some third party. You can vote for them or you can pay them but in both cases you are subject to them.

What's worse, in the solution debated here you are surrendering this control to a third party that your opponent paid for.
 
#557
#557
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
That thing called the free market. If word got out in a free America that you were using slaves, you wouldn't be in business long. Cmon hog.
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We have many business in this country that profit from essentially slave labor today.

And you forget the premise of your society, its unbridled capitalism, NO RULES. If I'm selling products so much cheaper than any of my competitors, I'll be just fine.
 
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#558
#558
volinbham said:
because we vested that power in them just as you are advocating we vest it in arbitrators and armed protection agencies.

either way unless you are 100% self sufficient you are surrendering control of your own behavior to some third party. You can vote for them or you can pay them but in both cases you are subject to them.

What's worse, in the solution debated here you are surrendering this control to a third party that your opponent paid for.
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There is a key thing you are missing. In the AnCap world you would voluntarily enter into contract. While here in current America, we're born into this mythical thing called the social contract. You have 0 choice, don't believe me? Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
 
#559
#559
hog88 said:
We have many business in this country that profit from essentially slave labor today.

And you forget the premise of your society, its unbridled capitalism, NO RULES. If I'm selling products so much cheaper than any of my competitors, I'll be just fine.
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And why do they profit Hog? Because of government mandated minimum wage laws.

I assume that's what you're alluding to. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
 
#561
#561
volinbham said:
hasn't stopped us from buying any manner of goods coming from child labor abuses...
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That gets into free trade with nations which if I'm not mistaken has a lot of government red tape involved. You must admit that slavery would not be tolerated here in America today.
 
#562
#562
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
There is a key thing you are missing. In the AnCap world you would voluntarily enter into contract. While here in current America, we're born into this mythical thing called the social contract. You have 0 choice, don't believe me? Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
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In your world if you don't enroll in a contract with a protection agency then you are screwed.

What's worse is that do to variations in what is considered "good" behavior you will constantly be defending yourself against actions brought by good-faith acting protection agencies of others who perceive to have been wronged by you. God help you if you didn't pay for your own protection agent.

Further, even if you don't pay for protection your behavior is still at the whim of the myriad of other protection agencies and since they have legitimate enforcement power (including physical force). You will still not be free since society has elected to empower these third parties to enact "fairness".
 
#563
#563
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
And why do they profit Hog? Because of government mandated minimum wage laws.

I assume that's what you're alluding to. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
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Your mistaken.

I'm talking about the big box retailers selling goods produced by in all reality slave labor.
 
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#565
#565
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
That gets into free trade with nations which if I'm not mistaken has a lot of government red tape involved. You must admit that slavery would not be tolerated here in America today.
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slavery would not be tolerated.

I was just pointing out that customers don't necessarily punish companies for questionable practices. Clothing and food production are two easy examples. How most food processors treat livestock is horrific yet we keep on eating that chicken. Why isn't the market demanding change?
 
#567
#567
It's quittin' time. You all enjoy your holidays!

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#568
#568
hog88 said:
It already is.
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Sorry, I can't make the rules in China. Why don't you look into the government involvement in this trade to find out that they're actually enabling the big box stores with regulations on the smaller competition.

The game is rigged by government.
 
#570
#570
volinbham said:
slavery would not be tolerated.

I was just pointing out that customers don't necessarily punish companies for questionable practices. Clothing and food production are two easy examples. How most food processors treat livestock is horrific yet we keep on eating that chicken. Why isn't the market demanding change?
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Do you discount the very large anti gmo movement right here in Birmingham?
 
#571
#571
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Sorry, I can't make the rules in China. Why don't you look into the government involvement in this trade to find out that they're actually enabling the big box stores with regulations on the smaller competition.

The game is rigged by government.
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Nothing would change under your model. Price rules for 85% of Americans. We wouldn't all of a sudden develop a collective conscience.
 
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#572
#572
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Do you discount the very large anti gmo movement right here in Birmingham?
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wasn't really aware of it (how big could it be)

Still, the vast majority of clothing and food purchased comes from providers that use what some would consider questionable practices yet customer continue to buy - the market hasn't forced a change (or significant change) in the business practices.
 
#573
#573
volinbham said:
So for damaging the farmers business the punishment is armed conflict?

Man that is one crazy world you are envisioning where civil disputes are settled via armed protection agencies.
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Actually, that's how things operate now. If you don't pay what the courts find you to owe, they are backed by an armed protection agency who has a monopoly on force. The only difference is there would be more than one protection agency.
 
#574
#574
hog88 said:
Nothing would change under your model. Price rules for 85% of Americans. We wouldn't all of a sudden develop a collective conscience.
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Sure it would. First of all, you wouldn't be paying all the taxes we are now, therefore prices would naturally be cheaper.
The market would actually decide the prices.
 
#575
#575
volinbham said:
wasn't really aware of it (how big could it be)

Still, the vast majority of clothing and food purchased comes from providers that use what some would consider questionable practices yet customer continue to buy - the market hasn't forced a change (or significant change) in the business practices.
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In complete openness and fairness, there are those ancaps that see nothing wrong with child labor, seeing it as government robbing them of their chance for work. Had to state that in openness and fairness.

The anti gmo movement is huge across bham bro, spend much time on 280?
 
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