Welcome To The 16 Trillion Dollar Club

#26
#26
utvolpj said:
I understand the sentiment but quoting Jefferson about debt is pretty funny
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He had personal debt problems but was strongly against national debt and burdening the next generation. True he didn't live a perfect life...none have. His thinking and principles though are solid:

"Then I say, the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully and in its own right. The second generation receives it clear of the debts and incumbrances of the first, the third of the second, and so on. For if the first could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence." Jefferson to Madison in 1789.
 
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#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
Censure!

But if you do, you'll need to add Reagan and both Bushes to the resolution.
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Last time I checked Congress control the spending. Presidents gets the blame for our debt but in reality the blame falls on Congress.
 
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#28
#28
Ernest T. Vol said:
He had personal debt problems but was strongly against national debt and burdening the next generation. True he didn't live a perfect life...none have. His thinking and principles though are solid:

"Then I say, the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully and in its own right. The second generation receives it clear of the debts and incumbrances of the first, the third of the second, and so on. For if the first could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence." Jefferson to Madison in 1789.
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That sounds great except how does one differentiate one generation from the next? How would debts be separated? How would the tax revenue be differentiated?

The quote sounds great in theory. Practically, it would have many problems. Seems like the only practical way would be a pay-as-you-go system. However, it is often times hard to have growth without debt. The spirit of the quote which I take as a lengthier version of "don't bite off more than you can chew" is still wise words to live by.
 
#31
#31
PKT_VOL said:
That sounds great except how does one differentiate one generation from the next? How would debts be separated? How would the tax revenue be differentiated?

The quote sounds great in theory. Practically, it would have many problems. Seems like the only practical way would be a pay-as-you-go system. However, it is often times hard to have growth without debt. The spirit of the quote which I take as a lengthier version of "don't bite off more than you can chew" is still wise words to live by.
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Its an ideal to strive for. We missed it by a little bit...say around 18 trillion (an 18 with 12 zeros).
 
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#32
#32
Ernest T. Vol said:
Its an ideal to strive for. We missed it by a little bit...say around 18 trillion (an 18 with 12 zeros).
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Barry campaigned on GW's overspending, it's irresponsible and unpatriotic, his words not mine. Wtf Owebama?? Where's that credit card from the bank of China ? How long before our credit rating is downgraded again? Epic ****ing failure.
 
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#33
#33
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#34
#34
ETV said:
I'm sure someone, somewhere is to blame for this...other than this administration.
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It hasn't had the acceleration that is now has up until now though. Oh yeah. It was Bush's fault. He was the one that stole 1/6 of the economy for his socialist wet dream.
 
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#37
#37
utvolpj said:
So the potus can't say no?
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Yes the potus is part if the blame, however Congress controls the checkbook. My point being the POTUS gets way too much credit or blame. History shows, very recent history, that both sides in Congress love to expand government and spend money. Congress has the authority to control spending, they rather continue spending and blame the other party for our problems.
 
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#38
#38
utvolpj said:
So the potus can't say no?
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He's said no to a budget for the entirety of his term in office. Of course that was due more to his lapdog harry reid never sending anything that King Putt wouldn't sign, but nonetheless, he has never had one.
 
#39
#39
SpaceCoastVol said:
He's said no to a budget for the entirety of his term in office. Of course that was due more to his lapdog harry reid never sending anything that King Putt wouldn't sign, but nonetheless, he has never had one.
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He hasn't needed one. Congress on both sides keep spending the cash. I saw on Morning Joe this morning the congressional leaders are meeting to determine how to move forward on passing a spending bill that will keep government running without a shutdown. They are reporting Boehner may have to make a deal with Nancy in order to pass due to about 40 GOP members that will not go along with it.

The president does not write the checks, congress does. It is just a big game in Washington. Both sides are guilty for the US debt and the majority of neither side is serious about lowering it.
 
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#40
#40
Gramps said:
The president does not write the checks, congress does. It is just a big game in Washington. Both sides are guilty for the US debt and the majority of neither side is serious about lowering it.
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That's like handing your kid a credit card and claiming you can't control what they do with it (which is how the relationship should work)
 
#41
#41
If you think Ds are any more responsible than the Rs for the debt (or vice versa) you're part of the problem.
 
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#42
#42
16T is difficult to conceptualize. There are videos on Youtube which attempt to put the volume of money comprising 16T into perspective. Even those are challenging especially if you have never been to the statue of liberty or seen firsthand the other items juxtaposed for comparison.

I did some calculating. A dollar bill is roughly 6 inches long. There are 5,280 feet in a mile; or 10,360 bills laid end to end. 16T bills would stretch over 1.5 Billion miles. The bills could be laid from earth to the sun (roundtrip) 7.5 times. Or, would wrap around the earth 62,000 times. Or, if laid in the earth's path around the sun it would take us about 3 years to cover the distance.

The amount of money is almost inconceivable. It is disheartening too that the 16T DOES NOT include the unfunded liabilities which are to be paid in the future.
 
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#44
#44
n_huffhines said:
If you think Ds are any more responsible than the Rs for the debt (or vice versa) you're part of the problem.
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I wish I could give you more than one like for that post.
It is 100% spot-on. That is so easy for those to see that are not wearing those darn ole blue or red goggles
 
#45
#45
FLVOL69 said:
Barry campaigned on GW's overspending, it's irresponsible and unpatriotic, his words not mine. Wtf Owebama?? Where's that credit card from the bank of China ? How long before our credit rating is downgraded again? Epic ****ing failure.
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If thou Emperor isn't using his credit card, he uses his race card.
 
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#46
#46
utvolpj said:
That's like handing your kid a credit card and claiming you can't control what they do with it (which is how the relationship should work)
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I agree to a point. It is the way it SHOULD work. Practically, rejection of budgets lead to shutdown (which i favor). Shutdowns are political suicide for the Rs because of the media spin. Ds rarely are condemned for shutdowns. So, the corrupticrats will eventually cave to whatever budget is offered. Very sad state of affairs.
 
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#48
#48
McDad said:
16T is difficult to conceptualize. There are videos on Youtube which attempt to put the volume of money comprising 16T into perspective. Even those are challenging especially if you have never been to the statue of liberty or seen firsthand the other items juxtaposed for comparison.

I did some calculating. A dollar bill is roughly 6 inches long. There are 5,280 feet in a mile; or 10,360 bills laid end to end. 16T bills would stretch over 1.5 Billion miles. The bills could be laid from earth to the sun (roundtrip) 7.5 times. Or, would wrap around the earth 62,000 times. Or, if laid in the earth's path around the sun it would take us about 3 years to cover the distance.

The amount of money is almost inconceivable. It is disheartening too that the 16T DOES NOT include the unfunded liabilities which are to be paid in the future.
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I saw where every man, woman, and child in the US would have to pay $56,000 and some change to pay it off.
 
#49
#49
govols/cc said:
I saw where every man, woman, and child in the US would have to pay $56,000 and some change to pay it off.
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Correct. My household owes over a quarter million to the governemnt using that equation.
 
#50
#50
utvolpj said:
That's like handing your kid a credit card and claiming you can't control what they do with it (which is how the relationship should work)
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Which is how it should work?

Please explain. You lost me on that one.
 
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