Why do people think firing coaches is the answer?

#26
#26
Spartacavolus said:
There is a Facebook page and other sites that have posters that want him gone. They always want somebody gone though.
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I don't Facebook so that is news to me. Crazy. The fanbase just needs some signs of real progress and I think most of that calms way down.
 
#27
#27
I don't recall anybody calling to fire CBJ now. The soonest anyone has mentioned even considering it is after next season, if we have three losing seasons in a row. If that's the case, then people have a right to question this coaching staff and evaluate whether they are the right fit. That's a lot more logical than saying the coaches should have all the time they need, and we should just be patient, year after year after year after year. This is the SEC. Expectations are high, and not everybody measures up.
 
#28
#28
Stability is the key ingredient UT needs right now. Tennessee is a great place. It will sell its self, but this soap opera ride we have been on for the last two staffs has been tarnishing and handicapping our brand. We are on the right track.
 
#29
#29
DD4ME said:
Who actually wants to fire Butch? Seriously
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Nobody, this is just a straw man tactic employed by those who have built this infallible image of Butch in their heads. They convince themselves that anyone offering anything other than blind support for the staff wants all the coaches fired now. This allows them to see themselves as "rational" and everyone else as crazy when the opposite is true.
 
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#30
#30
chargervol said:
Yeah, I expect improvement at year 3 and big wins at year 4 myself...
Really sucks if it's the wrong hire but that is about what it takes.
Cherry picking a program, that did it sooner, here and there is popular but not the norm.
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I have 4 concern levels. Next year I believe some real lines in the sand should exist for coaches.

Low but genuine concern:
no bowl game this year

Mid and growing concern:
no ranked/rival sec victory next year but bowl game is made -
Position coach may need to go

High:
no bowl game next year - a coordinator needs to go; Bajakian very likely

Defcon 1: all bets off
We lose to Vandy with Mason
 
#31
#31
roddo518 said:
Stability is the key ingredient UT needs right now. Tennessee is a great place. It will sell its self, but this soap opera ride we have been on for the last two staffs has been tarnishing and handicapping our brand. We are on the right track.
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I agree with this idea but I believe it should obviously have limits.
 
#32
#32
92volalum said:
So op you are saying that tn equals miss state n sc?? They have never won an sec championship n I think they have only been once to sec cg each since 92...;

We are not them and we should expect a coach to win 50% of his games in yr 2 n 75 to 80% n yr 3.. Oh but wait no way any coach could come in win 80% of his games by yr 3. It has to be fools fault..

Progress is expected n then championships.. N not take 10yrs..
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No, I'm not saying we're Miss St or South Carolina for that matter. But when your program has hit rock bottom, sometimes it takes 5 or 6 years to build it back up. It's not like we were close or just had a bad year before this. The last time we won more than 7 games was 2007. Thats 7 years since we've been semi-relevant. Butch's recruiting is why people have been so excited. And the South Carolina win. It's baby steps. It actually is a process, not just some ploy to buy time. It takes time because who we need is not yet here on campus and that's good quality experienced offensive linemen. We're working on it, but Butch can't make his freshmen (of whom most have played very well might I add) juniors and seniors. It's just going to take time waiting on them to grow up while also adding more talent and depth as well. I think the fact that every position on the team is noticeably better besides O-line, a position that was neglected recruiting wise two years ago, is a good sign. So my point... no, Miss St and South Carolina aren't on our level from a traditional standpoint, but yes, it very well may take as long as it did them to rebuild this program because of how bad it was run before Butch got here. Only reason it might not take as long is because Butch is an awesome recruiter and has freshmen playing well in many key areas and greatly improved the defense. Kinda dumb to call for the head of the man who's mainly the reason responsible for the hope that it might not take as long. Ok, so maybe it will take a little longer. Well, that's what we assumed in the first place. Everybody just chill, sit back and support the Vols win or lose, wait til we can get an offensive line and some more depth across the board and we'll be sitting pretty. If we can't get it done then, by all means say what you will. Right now, it's just unrealistic.
 
#33
#33
LA Vol said:
I don't recall anybody calling to fire CBJ now. The soonest anyone has mentioned even considering it is after next season, if we have three losing seasons in a row. If that's the case, then people have a right to question this coaching staff and evaluate whether they are the right fit. That's a lot more logical than saying the coaches should have all the time they need, and we should just be patient, year after year after year after year. This is the SEC. Expectations are high, and not everybody measures up.
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That might have been the right mindset after Fulmer, but now it's not,IMO. We need the depth and talent restocked. We need stability! As long as the majority thinks he is doing all he can to bring us back, he needs at least 5 years. We do not want to get the label nationally, that no coach can come in here and get enough time or support to get the job done. Revolving coaching door university.
 
#35
#35
Look at Oregon. They lost one or two of their stud lineman to injury and gave up a lot of sacks and struggled. They are loaded and were a playoff contender, and it effected them. We have a put together line with no depth and have lost two or three this year due to injury. It's not hard to imagine that we would struggle. Time is all we need.
 
#37
#37
Deputy Fife said:
Nobody, this is just a straw man tactic employed by those who have built this infallible image of Butch in their heads. They convince themselves that anyone offering anything other than blind support for the staff wants all the coaches fired now. This allows them to see themselves as "rational" and everyone else as crazy when the opposite is true.
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Lol did you even read my post? Where did I say Butch was infallible? And your comment seemed a little salty... does that mean you're part of the minority that wants him gone? All I said was it's stupid to fire coaches every 2 or 3 years like some have suggested because you're basically ensuring that you're never going to "get there" or that you're going to have to wait the same amount of time or longer to see the results you're looking for. Just think it's insane. Never said there shouldn't be any criticism. Just think people are blind to how far we've come in 2 years and that maybe Butch has done so much good in his short time that it's raised people's expectations too high too quickly. Expectations are good. And yeah we shouldn't accept what this offensive line has been. But there's not really anything you can do about it. It is what it is and we are where we are which is not as far away as some people think. Butch has shown me enough in his short time that I'm rolling with him until he proves to me that he's not the guy which would probably start if we didn't make a bowl game in 3 years with him.
 
#38
#38
DD4ME said:
I have 4 concern levels. Next year I believe some real lines in the sand should exist for coaches.

Low but genuine concern:
no bowl game this year

Mid and growing concern:
no ranked/rival sec victory next year but bowl game is made -
Position coach may need to go

High:
no bowl game next year - a coordinator needs to go; Bajakian very likely

Defcon 1: all bets off
We lose to Vandy with Mason
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:mf_surrender:
You had me at Vandy with Mason lol...
No, that is realistic goals.
 
#39
#39
92volalum said:
So op you are saying that tn equals miss state n sc?? They have never won an sec championship n I think they have only been once to sec cg each since 92...;

We are not them and we should expect a coach to win 50% of his games in yr 2 n 75 to 80% n yr 3.. Oh but wait no way any coach could come in win 80% of his games by yr 3. It has to be fools fault..

Progress is expected n then championships.. N not take 10yrs..
Click to expand...

No we aren't miss st. Butch inherited a bigger mess than has ever been inherited at any school not named vanderbilt. We have 4 seniors on our two deep! Miss st has 16, ole miss 14, and auburn 13. How is that hutch's fault? People say that Dooley recruited well are crazy. look at the numbers!!!!!
 
#40
#40
92volalum said:
So op you are saying that tn equals miss state n sc?? They have never won an sec championship n I think they have only been once to sec cg each since 92...;

We are not them and we should expect a coach to win 50% of his games in yr 2 n 75 to 80% n yr 3.. Oh but wait no way any coach could come in win 80% of his games by yr 3. It has to be fools fault..

Progress is expected n then championships.. N not take 10yrs..
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The word is and....please use it
 
#42
#42
Worst case we only win 4 this year is everyone still felling like just time is needed?
 
#43
#43
DD4ME said:
Worst case we only win 4 this year is everyone still felling like just time is needed?
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Yes. Our line situation is that bad. This is what you call an anomaly. The least experienced line ever, and had injuries in the line factored in as well.
 
#44
#44
I still think they get 5 years regardless of what I or anyone else thinks. You can draw a line in the sand, draw three lines in the sand, make a gargoyle out of sand, pick up sand and throw it, etc. It will not make any difference. This is the first staff that has had the appearance of going in the right direction since Fulmer.
 
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#45
#45
roddo518 said:
Yes. Our line situation is that bad. This is what you call an anomaly. The least experienced line ever, and had injuries in the line factored in as well.
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I can see that but I think you'll hear some pretty serious groaning and gnashing of teeth over Mahoney and possibly Bajakian if we lose to KY. Anomaly maybe but your added insult there is stoops.
 
#46
#46
VOLCLASSOF2014 said:
I honestly think this is one of the dumbest trends of this generation. Hire a coach, if he's not winning 8 games by year 2 then fire him or he's on the hot seat for year 3. If he's not in the SEC championship game by year 3 then fire him. Perhaps there's a bit of hyperbole there, but I don't get it. Now Dooley, you could see the obvious writing on the wall midway through year 3, maybe earlier, but as long as you're not seeing the team quitting and we're recruiting well, why would you even consider that? Yeah it may take 4 or 5 years but you'd be waiting that long or longer anyway if we fired our coach. I realize I'm probably talking to a small portion of the fan base, but still, it baffles me how anybody could be that stupid. Yeah, maybe we'll just have to suffer through this year, and wait til next year or maybe even 2016, but I don't see why people want to start
all over again, and again, and again. Look at Mullen at Miss St and Spurrier at South Carolina. They got over that hump and it took longer than 2 or 3 years. Not all rebuilding jobs are the same. Unless we missed a bowl this year and next you won't hear me clamoring for Butch's head. Patience will pay off with this staff. Maybe an amendment or two needs to be made after next year, but give them a chance to get 2 or 3 classes of thei
r guys first. GBO
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Well when Coach's get and demand the salaries the salaries they get then it turns into a win soon mentality. These Coach's honestly are overpaid a nd some more than others. I know their jobs are stressful but nothing like Teachers, Dr's that save lives and even the president. Yea we all love our football and are very passionate about our teams, but lets face it their jobs aren't as important as the few I listed and get paid way more. So basically if you are getting that kind of money you are expected to win now or very soon and if you don't someone will replace you that will.
 
#47
#47
roddo518 said:
Yes. Our line situation is that bad. This is what you call an anomaly. The least experienced line ever, and had injuries in the line factored in as well.
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We knew this at the start of the year.. No returning starters on O of D line.. We got our hopes up with the first couple of wins like always... But we still got more winnable games left ... We have hope for a good run and a bowl.
 
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#48
#48
roddo518 said:
I still think they get 5 years regardless of what I or anyone else thinks. You can draw a line in the sand, draw three lines in the sand, make a gargoyle out of sand, pick up sand and throw it, etc. It will not make any difference. This is the first staff that has had the appearance of going in the right direction since Fulmer.
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I don't disagree for Butch but you'd have some serious ifs for "the best coaching staff". Jmo
 
#49
#49
VOLCLASSOF2014 said:
Lol did you even read my post? Where did I say Butch was infallible? And your comment seemed a little salty... does that mean you're part of the minority that wants him gone? All I said was it's stupid to fire coaches every 2 or 3 years like some have suggested because you're basically ensuring that you're never going to "get there" or that you're going to have to wait the same amount of time or longer to see the results you're looking for. Just think it's insane. Never said there shouldn't be any criticism. Just think people are blind to how far we've come in 2 years and that maybe Butch has done so much good in his short time that it's raised people's expectations too high too quickly. Expectations are good. And yeah we shouldn't accept what this offensive line has been. But there's not really anything you can do about it. It is what it is and we are where we are which is not as far away as some people think. Butch has shown me enough in his short time that I'm rolling with him until he proves to me that he's not the guy which would probably start if we didn't make a bowl game in 3 years with him.
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I don't want him fired any time soon as it would set the program back even further and I have no trust in the administration and Hart to hire a competent replacement. We have to give him a real chance, no one is disputing that.

Having said that, I don't think we'll accomplish anything close to our ceiling as a program as long as he's our coach, hope I'm wrong.
 
#50
#50
Deputy Fife said:
I don't want him fired any time soon as it would set the program back even further and I have no trust in the administration and Hart to hire a competent replacement. We have to give him a real chance, no one is disputing that.

Having said that, I don't think we'll accomplish anything close to our ceiling as a program as long as he's our coach, hope I'm wrong.
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Right now, fans will except 6 wins as a reason to give him a raise

Tells you all you need
 
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