Enough with the excuses!

[Volru]

Well, that went well I think.

 

[knoxvols11]

The 2005 season was his mulligan. He deserved that because he is a legend and the only coach to bring home a NC in my lifetime. Cut came back and saved his butt. His last season...well, it was obvious to just about everyone except his immediate family that he...and the entire program...had gotten fat and lazy. Cut was gone. Worse, Coach Fulmer at times exuded a subtle air of entitlement, or so it seemed to me. No fire in the belly, no appropriate sense of urgency. I shouted loudly and often for him to be replaced at the time...though I was appalled at the way Hamilton and Co. did it.

And I would look him in the eye and shake his hand today for what he did for Tennessee football. It seems to me to be useless speculation to wonder where the program would be today if Coach Fulmer had stayed.

Butch Jones is our coach now...and my coach.

Who can ever forget the last call in show in 05 when Fulmer said he was glad the season was almost over?

 

[UTRavens]

People keep mentioning 'should be winning National Championships'..in my lifetime we have won exactly 1, and I am old compared to about 85% on here. Let's attempt a little realism every now and again. CBJ is the answer IMO.

Given how many times we've come close, I'd say we're pretty unlucky to have only one. I'm expecting more than one championship in a 47 year period.

 

[sjt18]

Fulmer took both auburn and lsu to the brink in his last two championship games, one of which was played with rick clausen as his qb because of injuries.

To the "brink"? He LOST. And the fact that Miles frequently plays down to his competition really does nothing to help the Fulmer argument.

Fulmer would have likely gotten us to atlanta once or twice since 2008.

Absolute... PURE... delusion.

There is no way we would be in this sad shape.

His decline is the FOUNDATION for the sequence of events that put the program in this "sad shape". When Kiffin took over, how many OL's did Fulmer have committed to replace his very THIN and senior group? There were 3. Revis, Schofield, and A Phillips (signed with FSU). Revis probably never deserved an offer. Schofield was overrated and quickly passed by other players. Phillips was cut loose by Kiffin because he appeared to be overweight and lazy... he couldn't even cut it long enough to make it through the first August with FSU.

How many DT's did he leave or have committed? The only ONE... not the only good one but the only true SEC quality DT left by Fulmer was Dan Williams. BOTH of the two squads after he left were dependent on DE's sliding inside.

There is NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING that was happening with recruiting to suggest Fulmer would have turned things around. HE refused to change his coaching. He refused to discipline his team. HE cultivated an image of the program that was not attractive to the best recruits (talent/character/academics).

NO ONE defended Fulmer getting his shot to turn it around more than I did here. But by the time he was let go, it was over. The program was not getting better and Fulmer had publicly refused to change anything about the way he was handling the situation.

To compound the problem, we should have hired Cutcliffe when Dooley was hired. He at least would have recruited outstanding qbs. I'm not so sure he should not have been hired when butch was hired but time will tell. I think both are good coaches but likely not hall of famers.

Maybe. I like Cut. He definitely would not have run a completely undisciplined program like Fulmer. He probably never got as much credit for "Fulmer's success" as he deserved.

 

[sjt18]

yet LK managed to win 7 & go to a bowl even after blowing a golden opportunity to win @ Bama and DD managed to stumble into a bowl after an unbelievable loss LSU only to loss to UNC in an equally unbelievable manner

Fulmer likely would not have had a winning record with the team he left Kiffin. For all of Kiffin's very, very obvious flaws... they did a good job that season of getting every ounce out of that team.

Fulmer would have no more been IN that Bama game than he was the previous two meetings with Saban in charge. Remember, that was the 14-0 DOMINANT Bama NC team. They were BETTER than the previous two squads that had manhandled Fulmer.

You really want to try to give Fulmer credit for Dooley's first team? There was no QB on that team signed by Fulmer. The OL was a patchwork of new players and leftovers that probably shouldn't have ever started for UT. The best RB left was Poole. There were no DT's left from Fulmer and DL quality/depth was critically low.

In short, that roster was an absolute mess. You don't have to give Dooley credit but Chaney and Wilcox did an excellent job.

 

[sjt18]

People keep mentioning 'should be winning National Championships'..in my lifetime we have won exactly 1, and I am old compared to about 85% on here. Let's attempt a little realism every now and again. CBJ is the answer IMO.

Most of those mentioning National Championships are those attempting to discredit far more modest expectations of other posters. I personally doubt the sincerity of the OP... probably just stirring the pot.

 

[JohnnyBall]

People need to realize, especially the haters but some of our fans aren't so innocent either, that these "excuses" are legitimate reasons why we've been down. What Lane Kiffin and Dooley did to this program really ruined it. Now Butch is doing a good job, and has worked his ass off lately and I feel as if we'll have our first turnaround year next year. However, people that are saying "quit making excuses" need to realize these aren't just your typical excuses, they're legitimate reasons that would destroy any program temporarily.

Nodding*

 

[gonzagafan62]

Most of those mentioning National Championships are those attempting to discredit far more modest expectations of other posters. I personally doubt the sincerity of the OP... probably just stirring the pot.

Exactly.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

More then half of those freshman are more talented then anyone we have had for the last 5 years. They will perform at a high level. They're young, they're fast, they're determined. A select few were raised from birth to don the orange and white, to defend the state and city

No one knows yet how Talented these freshmen are. They have never played in a college football game. Some will be busts.

Everyone should wait awhile before they begin throwing around the superlatives about these untested rookies.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

Fulmer likely would not have had a winning record with the team he left Kiffin. For all of Kiffin's very, very obvious flaws... they did a good job that season of getting every ounce out of that team.

Fulmer would have no more been IN that Bama game than he was the previous two meetings with Saban in charge. Remember, that was the 14-0 DOMINANT Bama NC team. They were BETTER than the previous two squads that had manhandled Fulmer.

You really want to try to give Fulmer credit for Dooley's first team? There was no QB on that team signed by Fulmer. The OL was a patchwork of new players and leftovers that probably shouldn't have ever started for UT. The best RB left was Poole. There were no DT's left from Fulmer and DL quality/depth was critically low.

In short, that roster was an absolute mess. You don't have to give Dooley credit but Chaney and Wilcox did an excellent job.

Kiffin blew his very first game against UCLA. He didn't get every ounce. Moreover, that cheating scum bucket would have had us on probation. In effect, he put us on probation. I have no Warm and fuzzy feelings toward thst man that treated our program like a harlot.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Kiffin blew his very first game against UCLA. He didn't get every ounce. Moreover, that cheating scum bucket would have had us on probation. In effect, he put us on probation. I have no Warm and fuzzy feelings toward thst man that treated our program like a harlot.

I have said it before and it needs repeating. What Kiffin and Dooley did to UT's football program should be considered criminal acts.

Anyone who would, even in an a troll attempt, to defend Dooley is beyond insane. Fulmer was 100x the coach Kiffin could ever hope to be.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

To the "brink"? He LOST. And the fact that Miles frequently plays down to his competition really does nothing to help the Fulmer argument.

Absolute... PURE... delusion.

His decline is the FOUNDATION for the sequence of events that put the program in this "sad shape". When Kiffin took over, how many OL's did Fulmer have committed to replace his very THIN and senior group? There were 3. Revis, Schofield, and A Phillips (signed with FSU). Revis probably never deserved an offer. Schofield was overrated and quickly passed by other players. Phillips was cut loose by Kiffin because he appeared to be overweight and lazy... he couldn't even cut it long enough to make it through the first August with FSU.

How many DT's did he leave or have committed? The only ONE... not the only good one but the only true SEC quality DT left by Fulmer was Dan Williams. BOTH of the two squads after he left were dependent on DE's sliding inside.

There is NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING that was happening with recruiting to suggest Fulmer would have turned things around. HE refused to change his coaching. He refused to discipline his team. HE cultivated an image of the program that was not attractive to the best recruits (talent/character/academics).

NO ONE defended Fulmer getting his shot to turn it around more than I did here. But by the time he was let go, it was over. The program was not getting better and Fulmer had publicly refused to change anything about the way he was handling the situation.


Maybe. I like Cut. He definitely would not have run a completely undisciplined program like Fulmer. He probably never got as much credit for "Fulmer's success" as he deserved.

That les miles argument is lame and won't hunt. We were a three loss team playing an unbeaten team and had a real shot at the end to shock the nation. Lsu won the national title. You really can't be objective at all.

 

[sjt18]

Kiffin blew his very first game against UCLA.

I guess you mean unlike your hero did the year before, right? The team that beat Fulmer went 4-8, lost to two mid-majors, and didn't beat a team that finished with a winning record. The one Kiffin lost to was at least a 7-6 team with a couple of decent wins.

To take off an excuse given by many here for Jones... It took Kiffin a little time to wash the sloth and lack of discipline off the team Fulmer left him.

Moreover, that cheating scum bucket would have had us on probation. In effect, he put us on probation. I have no Warm and fuzzy feelings toward thst man that treated our program like a harlot.

I don't disagree with any of this. But for that one season, UT's football team received better coaching than Fulmer had been giving them. If anything, that just demonstrates how badly Fulmer had fallen. He was once a very good coach... by the end he was a poor coach deluding himself into believing nothing had really changed since his glory days.

 

[sjt18]

That les miles argument is lame and won't hunt. We were a three loss team playing an unbeaten team and had a real shot at the end to shock the nation. Lsu won the national title. You really can't be objective at all.

You... are questioning someone else's objectivity? ost-4-1090547912::lolabove:lol::crazy::birgits_giggle:

Miles has a history of playing down to his competition. Fulmer had likewise developed a pattern of choking even when he had a chance in big games.

As was aptly proven the next season, Fulmer could no longer make it without Cut.... if he ever really could.

 

[sjt18]

I have said it before and it needs repeating. What Kiffin and Dooley did to UT's football program should be considered criminal acts.

Anyone who would, even in an a troll attempt, to defend Dooley is beyond insane. Fulmer was 100x the coach Kiffin could ever hope to be.

There's no need to defend Dooley. He failed.

There's no need to defend Kiffin. He's a classless piece of crap... being kind.

But there is also no reason to be unrealistic about Fulmer. Fulmer was very good for a long time. He had two great coordinators and a staff made of guys who complimented each other. When he lost Cut, things slipped. He then lost control of discipline and they slipped more. Then he failed to cut Sanders loose when it was beyond question that he wasn't what UT needed... and it fell to the WORST underachieving team of the last 30 years at least. The 2005 team was loaded... and had a losing season. As bad as Dooley was, he never had that much talent to work with and still finished no worse than Fulmer did that year.

You and Beattie keep trying to act like reasonable criticism of Fulmer amounts to a defense of Kiffin or Dooley. It doesn't. It is simply the TRUTH that Fulmer put the program in the ditch. Kiffin didn't get it out. Dooley didn't get it out... but neither of them put it there. Fulmer did.

 

[sjt18]

BTW, you guys feel welcome to go back and look at my posts from the time period before the 2008 season. I argued harder than anyone here that Fulmer should get his shot to turn things around. He deserved it because of what he had brought to UT. But pragmatically... I knew that him doing it was a BETTER bet than taking a ride on the coaching carousel. Once on the ride... you NEVER know exactly when you are getting off. You might get "good" coaches who cannot handle an overwhelming situation or you might get coaches that are just bad... either way, you kind of have to get an alignment of the stars for things to start rising again.

That's one reason UT can't simply give a coach that isn't winning a lot of time. Once they don't win... recruiting will fall off... and then their end is just a matter of how long and how much deeper in the hole the program goes before someone acts.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

There's no need to defend Dooley. He failed.

There's no need to defend Kiffin. He's a classless piece of crap... being kind.

But there is also no reason to be unrealistic about Fulmer. Fulmer was very good for a long time. He had two great coordinators and a staff made of guys who complimented each other. When he lost Cut, things slipped. He then lost control of discipline and they slipped more. Then he failed to cut Sanders loose when it was beyond question that he wasn't what UT needed... and it fell to the WORST underachieving team of the last 30 years at least. The 2005 team was loaded... and had a losing season. As bad as Dooley was, he never had that much talent to work with and still finished no worse than Fulmer did that year.

You and Beattie keep trying to act like reasonable criticism of Fulmer amounts to a defense of Kiffin or Dooley. It doesn't. It is simply the TRUTH that Fulmer put the program in the ditch. Kiffin didn't get it out. Dooley didn't get it out... but neither of them put it there. Fulmer did.

I believe Richt and Uga are getting ready to show why you remain loyal to dome one who has a proven record and history of achievement. As I said before, trending is a bunch of hooey as it relates to coaches that hang around long enough. I predict that Uga will win the sec if not the national title. In spite of the fact that Richt had a few lean seasons, and had an inordinate amount of injuries last year, he will grab the brass ring this year. Uga learned from our mistake......

 

[Other_Guy]

The only excuse I let slide is how young a team is. Just go look at the roster at how young this team is. How young the WRs are, the secondary... It's scary but scary good. Whether its game 6 of this year or game 6 of next year, this team has some unbelievable potential, and how they play by game 6 or 7 of next season will most likely answer the question of if Butch is the guy... sorry, "gets it". Much better.

 

[sjt18]

I believe Richt and Uga are getting ready to show why you remain loyal to dome one who has a proven record and history of achievement.

Richt is a mediocre "coach". But he is a consistent and good recruiter. He's never had the talent level at UGA drop like it did in Fulmer's last few years. He's selling homerism. He's selling whatever else... but kids and parents are buying it. AND as bad as it has gotten a few times, he STILL hasn't allowed discipline on or off the field to drop to the levels UT had at the end of Fulmer's time. It was just plain awful and Fulmer fully demonstrated he had no clue as to how to fix it.

As I said before, trending is a bunch of hooey as it relates to coaches that hang around long enough.

You can lie to yourself from now til the day you breath your last... and Fulmer will have STILL earned his dismissal. You can argue with the way it was done or who was chosen to replace him. But it was time for him to go.

I predict that Uga will win the sec if not the national title. In spite of the fact that Richt had a few lean seasons, and had an inordinate amount of injuries last year, he will grab the brass ring this year. Uga learned from our mistake......

UT didn't make a mistake and anything you believe UGA may have "learned" is pure speculation if not delusion.

UGA likes Richt. He's got a great personal image and has had success on the field. IMO he's underachieved but he has not given them good reason to can him. He's stayed just above that level and can ALWAYS point to the roster he's built and maintained.

 

[sjt18]

The only excuse I let slide is how young a team is. Just go look at the roster at how young this team is. How young the WRs are, the secondary... It's scary but scary good. Whether its game 6 of this year or game 6 of next year, this team has some unbelievable potential, and how they play by game 6 or 7 of next season will most likely answer the question of if Butch is the guy... sorry, "gets it". Much better.

Just needs to get at least 6 wins and play competitively. That will keep recruits believing.

 

[Catbone]

We aren't winning more than 6 games this year in the regular season. Go ahead and mark it down kiddos. That being said, next year should be around 8. Almost there, just wait a little longer fellas.

 

[Nationdom]

We aren't winning more than 6 games this year in the regular season. Go ahead and mark it down kiddos. That being said, next year should be around 8. Almost there, just wait a little longer fellas.

7 wins in the reg are comin straight up. Hotshot

 

[MWAVolfan]

That's one reason UT can't simply give a coach that isn't winning a lot of time. Once they don't win... recruiting will fall off... and then their end is just a matter of how long and how much deeper in the hole the program goes before someone acts.

truth

 

[Catbone]

7 wins in the reg are comin straight up. Hotshot

Bookmarked. Will get back to you in December and we will revisit this :thumbsup:

 

[MWAVolfan]

7 wins in the reg are comin straight up. Hotshot

Seven wins ONLY if we beat UF and UM at home.

The only road game UT wins this year will be at Candy. Mark it down. People think because we beat USC and Almost beat UGA that those will be probable wins this year. Think again. Winning on the road in the SEC is very tough unless you are playing in Lexington or Nashville (and Tennessee had managed to lose in both places to my dismay). These players are really really young. They are dealing with the worst QB situation that we've seen in nearly 30 years. Both lines are brand new and the players arent that good (by SEC standards). Wins on the road I just dont see coming except for one.