Old white man shoots pregnant black woman intruder (he's going to jail)

[Volumnus 2011]

Primal instinct? If someone is no longer a threat to you but you kill them anyways that's murder (or an execution). Sadly you seem ok with that and I would put murderers below thieves on the scum scale

You have a family PJ? You harm my family, I will harm you back in a greater way. If that makes me scum for getting this worthless POS off the streets so that they won't bother you in the future, then so be it. I'm scum. You won't lay a finger on my family. I'll make you pay Liam Neeson style.

 

[Through_The_T]

You have a family PJ? You harm my family, I will harm you back in a greater way. If that makes me scum for getting this worthless POS off the streets so that they won't bother you in the future, then so be it. I'm scum. You won't lay a finger on my family. I'll make you pay Liam Neeson style.

Once again, if someone is actively harming you or your family, you're justified in killing them to put a stop to it. If someone is fleeing, falls down in an alley and is pleading for their life after you have pursued them outside of your home, you are no longer justified in killing them. That's called murder, and it cannot be justified, no matter the circumstances.

If you do, what's the point of the justice system? We cannot allow vigilante justice to reign supreme.

 

[utvolpj]

You have a family PJ? You harm my family, I will harm you back in a greater way. If that makes me scum for getting this worthless POS off the streets so that they won't bother you in the future, then so be it. I'm scum. You won't lay a finger on my family. I'll make you pay Liam Neeson style.

Yes I have a family

You also realize your actions will likely land you in prison for a long time. This will mean you can provide zero support or protection for your family. Doesn't sound like a solid plan

 

[Volumnus 2011]

Yes I have a family

You also realize your actions will likely land you in prison for a long time. This will mean you can provide zero support or protection for your family. Doesn't sound like a solid plan

I'm not arguing the law. I understand the law. I'm arguing what's right. Again, you harm my family, you body slam my daughter, and I will make you suffer. Period.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

Once again, if someone is actively harming you or your family, you're justified in killing them to put a stop to it. If someone is fleeing, falls down in an alley and is pleading for their life after you have pursued them outside of your home, you are no longer justified in killing them. That's called murder, and it cannot be justified, no matter the circumstances.

If you do, what's the point of the justice system? We cannot allow vigilante justice to reign supreme.

The justice system is broken. Seriously.

I have family that works in law enforcement and family that works in corrections. Nobody fears prison. Nobody fears jail. Prison is a cake walk. There is no Shawshank anymore. Inmates have it made.

So, you let them go free. MAYBE the cops will find them. If not, they may come back, and this time may come with firepower of their own to get you back for even threatening to shoot them.

Even if the cops get them, they're looking at what? 4, 5 years? Then they get right back out, still jobless with even less an opportunity to get a job than before so they can go steal and thieve and beat up more elderly people.

So yes, why even have a justice system? It's costing tax payers a crazy amount of money and it's causing us to sympathize with criminals. I bet your grandad wouldn't have had a problem with gunning this woman down in an alley. Times have changed, and not for the better.




Edit: Might I also add that on average it costs 70 dollars a day to keep an inmate in prison in Tennessee. 70 dollars per inmate per day. You do the math.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

Yes I have a family

You also realize your actions will likely land you in prison for a long time. This will mean you can provide zero support or protection for your family. Doesn't sound like a solid plan

One more comment on this, let's see what happens to this man. You say my actions will land me in prison for a long time. I'm not sure a jury would see it that way. We'll see.

 

[Sandvol]

I guess this case is coming up before SCOTUS on this year's docket.

A Supreme Court Forecast: Big Gun-Rights Case Is Coming Soon - Businessweek

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Don't believe him. He was supposed to come by here and smoke some cedar shrub but was a no show.

Well I'll be going back to Austin for some ACL action purty soon, but someone moved out of Arky.

 

[Obsessed]

Well I'll be going back to Austin for some ACL action purty soon, but someone moved out of Arky.

Haha

I'm just 1 mile across the state line. I'll catch you at a game sometime, somewhere.

We will have a bourbon.

 

[82_VOL_83]

This phenomenon somehow escapes highly trained infantrymen...

If you are not capable of firing controlled pairs and assessing the situation and threat every single time, then you probably should not own a firearm.

So you are in favor of disarming 90% of all LEO's? If you can't see the difference between this and a battlefield situation, then you need to get a grip. You can not honestly tell me that when a face to face, one on one/two/three fire fight breaks out that you are going to fire 2 or 3 round bursts. You do you are dead. You are going to be a lead farmer and you know it.

 

[hog88]

So you are in favor of disarming 90% of all LEO's? If you can't see the difference between this and a battlefield situation, then you need to get a grip. You can not honestly tell me that when a face to face, one on one/two/three fire fight breaks out that you are going to fire 2 or 3 round bursts. You do you are dead. You are going to be a lead farmer and you know it.

No of course not, I'm going to fire well aimed shots in semi-auto. Actually hitting what I'm shooting at.

You know absolutely nothing about this subject, you best leave it alone and quit demonstrating your ignorance.

 

[82_VOL_83]

No of course not, I'm going to fire well aimed shots in semi-auto. Actually hitting what I'm shooting at.

You know absolutely nothing about this subject, you best leave it alone and quit demonstrating your ignorance.

Really? Tell me what I don't know. Every shoot out video ever shown of LEOs show them emptying their weapons. KPD is infamous for having shootouts, firing 50 or 60 rounds and hitting the perp once or twice. I know enough to know how I would react and that is to shoot until the threat is down or I am down. Your feigned lack of idiocy is beginning to show.

 

[Sandvol]

Really? Tell me what I don't know. Every shoot out video ever shown of LEOs show them emptying their weapons. KPD is infamous for having shootouts, firing 50 or 60 rounds and hitting the perp once or twice. I know enough to know how I would react and that is to shoot until the threat is down or I am down. Your feigned lack of idiocy is beginning to show.

When was the last shootout you heard about in Knoxville?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Really? Tell me what I don't know. Every shoot out video ever shown of LEOs show them emptying their weapons. KPD is infamous for having shootouts, firing 50 or 60 rounds and hitting the perp once or twice. I know enough to know how I would react and that is to shoot until the threat is down or I am down. Your feigned lack of idiocy is beginning to show.

Many of my family are long term LEOs. They concur that in the heat of altercation, if one seriously does have to draw and shoot, the vast majority of the time, the magazine is emptied, and often the officer even dry fires several times before changing mags. It's just the way it is.

Methinks hog88 is an avid reader.

 

[hog88]

So you are in favor of disarming 90% of all LEO's? If you can't see the difference between this and a battlefield situation, then you need to get a grip. You can not honestly tell me that when a face to face, one on one/two/three fire fight breaks out that you are going to fire 2 or 3 round bursts. You do you are dead. You are going to be a lead farmer and you know it.

Really? Tell me what I don't know. Every shoot out video ever shown of LEOs show them emptying their weapons. KPD is infamous for having shootouts, firing 50 or 60 rounds and hitting the perp once or twice. I know enough to know how I would react and that is to shoot until the threat is down or I am down. Your feigned lack of idiocy is beginning to show.

In your second post you sound as if you are condemning the practice of spray and pray then you drop the highlighted.

Spray and pray is a result of piss poor training and stupidity. This is why I fully support TUT's argument that those with that attitude do not need to possess firearms. Yes, including cops.

 

[hog88]

Many of my family are long term LEOs. They concur that in the heat of altercation, if one seriously does have to draw and shoot, the vast majority of the time, the magazine is emptied, and often the officer even dry fires several times before changing mags. It's just the way it is.

Methinks hog88 is an avid reader.

Yep, reading is where I got this from.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yep, reading is where I got this from.

Hog, you're telling us the best hoped performance from the best training. I'm telling you what usually happens when trained LEOs have deadly altercations. I'm using that to ask what should be expected out of the mentality of an old man who had just been beaten within an inch of his life.

 

[82_VOL_83]

In your second post you sound as if you are condemning the practice of spray and pray then you drop the highlighted.

Spray and pray is a result of piss poor training and stupidity. This is why I fully support TUT's argument that those with that attitude do not need to possess firearms. Yes, including cops.

So, in conclusion, I was right and you got your panties in a wad. LEOs empty clips. I would empty a clip. I don't know what you see as wrong with this because if I feel threatened enough in my home to go and get my weapon, point it at someone, ask them to get on the floor, and then they are aggressive or they come in to do violence and I can get to my weapon, I am going to shoot until they get me or I get them. If you see something wrong with this, you need to check your man card at the door and pick up your "my shiite don't stink card". You and TRUT can wear them like lapel pins and complement each other on what exemplary gun owners you are.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Hog, you're telling us the best hoped performance from the best training. I'm telling you what usually happens when trained LEOs have deadly altercations. I'm using that to ask what should be expected out of the mentality of an old man who had just been beaten within an inch of his life.

His gun ownership with huge restrictions stripe is showing.

 

[hog88]

Hog, you're telling us the best hoped performance from the best training. I'm telling you what usually happens when trained LEOs have deadly altercations. I'm using that to ask what should be expected out of the mentality of an old man who had just been beaten within an inch of his life.

First, if he had just been beaten within an inch of his life he couldn't have chased her down the ally, now could he?

Now, I would have no problem with a jury finding him not guilty of all possible charges, I would most likely vote that way myself if on a jury. However he needs to be charged (from what little I know) with at least manslaughter. You simply cannot fire that second shot after she was down and you had chased her outside of the house.

 

[hog88]

So, in conclusion, I was right and you got your panties in a wad. LEOs empty clips. I would empty a clip. I don't know what you see as wrong with this because if I feel threatened enough in my home to go and get my weapon, point it at someone, ask them to get on the floor, and then they are aggressive or they come in to do violence and I can get to my weapon, I am going to shoot until they get me or I get them. If you see something wrong with this, you need to check your man card at the door and pick up your "my shiite don't stink card". You and TRUT can wear them like lapel pins and complement each other on what exemplary gun owners you are.

You should practice enough to take well aimed and precise shots, avoiding the need to fire wildly and endanger those around you.

 

[82_VOL_83]

First, if he had just been beaten within an inch of his life he couldn't have chased her down the ally, now could he?

Now, I would have no problem with a jury finding him not guilty of all possible charges, I would most likely vote that way myself if on a jury. However he needs to be charged (from what little I know) with at least manslaughter. You simply cannot fire that second shot after she was down and you had chased her outside of the house.

The fact that you personally have been in this situation and didn't do it is admirable. The fact that the rest of us own up to the fact that we probably wouldn't be able to is admirable.

 

[hndog609]

As a gun owner I'm more than a little iffy with the idea of supporting the contention that "Hey, when it get's a little crazy it's perfectly natural that people may shoot people outside the parameters of a credible threat. Besides, they had it coming.".

Actually, as a gun owner, that's exactly how I (and most responsible gun owners) DON'T want to be perceived by the general public.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You should practice enough to take well aimed and precise shots, avoiding the need to fire wildly and endanger those around you.

I'm scratching my head at the fact that a person with such obvious experience in these encounters doesn't make a distinction between ability to aim on a calm spring day, and how many times one pulls the trigger when the chemicals hit the system in the dark.

But that's just me.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I'm scratching my head at the fact that a person with such obvious experience in these encounters doesn't make a distinction between ability to aim on a calm spring day, and how many times one pulls the trigger when the chemicals hit the system in the dark.

But that's just me.

Only pros with unlimited resources and time to practice in situational rooms should own guns.