US Soldier Bowe Berghdahl freed from Taliban in prisoner exchange

#827
#827
volholio said:
You need proof that Cheney's evil? How about his trumped Iraq war? He's responsible for every single soldier casualty in that war. He ruined a generation of America while simultaneously bankrupting us.
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without belittling or marginalizing the sacrifices made in Iraq and Afghanistan, this "generation" has gotten off pretty easy
 
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#829
#829
Grand Vol said:
Yeah, I'm sure Cheney was in there typing up the reports himself...
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I tell everybody I would highly recommend going to read Bob Woodward's book. Cheney, absolutely and unequivocally, reviewed all reports going to the President and Congress and edited out evidence and highlighted other evidence that created a certain narrative. In one case there was a CIA analyst fired, and another resigned because the story was changed without any kind of context. And sure enough, no WMDs were found.

I'm not surprised at all Congress voted for action with what they were given as evidence.
 
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#832
#832
rjd970 said:
I tell everybody I would highly recommend going to read Bob Woodward's book. Cheney, absolutely and unequivocally, reviewed all reports going to the President and Congress and edited out evidence and highlighted other evidence that created a certain narrative. In one case there was a CIA analyst fired, and another resigned because the story was changed without any kind of context. And sure enough, no WMDs were found.

I'm not surprised at all Congress voted for action with what they were given as evidence.
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I'll say the same thing I've always said. It needed to be done in 91. Whether the premises were good, bad or indifferent, the fact we finished what we started in 1991 is what matters.

The conduct afterwards I don't agree with, but the principle of invading Iraq and taking that madman out of power was a far better reason in my opinion.
 
#833
#833
AirVol said:
Saddam killing thousands of people with chemical warfare isn't a fabrication.
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If that was a good enough reason to go in the president wouldn't have needed 911 as a pretext for support, and further, it would have been a priority in GWI to finish.

Something about the whole reason and lead up to OIF stinks.
 
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#834
#834
Grand Vol said:
I'll say the same thing I've always said. It needed to be done in 91. Whether the premises were good, bad or indifferent, the fact we finished what we started in 1991 is what matters.

The conduct afterwards I don't agree with, but the principle of invading Iraq and taking that madman out of power was a far better reason in my opinion.
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What business is it of ours? Why not do the same for any of the other mad men in the world?
 
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#835
#835
rjd970 said:
What business is it of ours? Why not do the same for any of the other mad men in the world?
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Don't cherry pick quotes without context. The first part of my post answered that specific question.
 
#836
#836
lawgator1 said:
I think Grandvol is correct. There should be trials. And I guess in the end we have to face the reality that imprisonment will have to be at Gitmo and we will have to keep it open for quite some time to accomplish that.
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I agree.... And thank you.
 
#837
#837
Grand Vol said:
Don't cherry pick quotes without context. The first part of my post answered that specific question.
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No it didn't, why not go and remove every ruthless dictator in the world if being a mad man is a good enough requisite? I agree it should have been done in '91, but just like in '03, that wasn't a good enough reason on its own, we had other reasons. And in '03 the other reasons turned out to be false based on cherry picked intelligence presented without proper context or debate.
 
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#838
#838
rjd970 said:
No it didn't, why not go and remove every ruthless dictator in the world if being a mad man is a good enough requisite? I agree it should have been done in '91, but just like in '03, that wasn't a good enough reason on its own, we had other reasons. And in '03 the other reasons turned out to be false based on cherry picked intelligence presented without proper context or debate.
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The world made it their business in 91 to put a stop to what had happened. Then let the Saudis play their political games in keeping us from going straight to Baghdad and taking him out then which would have been the logical move. So again, we finished the logical conclusion to Desert Storm.

And other "ruthless dictators" as you call them typically didn't have the ability to threaten a significant portion of the world's known oil reserves. Oh sure, Saddam said he wasn't going further than Kuwait. And people believed that? We should have taken him out in 91.
 
#839
#839
Grand Vol said:
The world made it their business in 91 to put a stop to what had happened. Then let the Saudis play their political games in keeping us from going straight to Baghdad and taking him out then which would have been the logical move. So again, we finished the logical conclusion to Desert Storm.

And other "ruthless dictators" as you call them typically didn't have the ability to threaten a significant portion of the world's known oil reserves. Oh sure, Saddam said he wasn't going further than Kuwait. And people believed that? We should have taken him out in 91.
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So are you saying being a ruthless dictator isn't a good enough reason, it actually takes world support to protect oil supplies in addition to be good enough?

Just trying to understand. On one hand you say being a mad man is good enough, on the other you say being a mad that can threaten world economics is actually necessary when asked why we don't go after others.

Bottom line though, the stated reasons given for '03 were borderline criminally fabricated. No matter the end result, the means to get there rightfully piss a lot of people off.
 
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#840
#840
rjd970 said:
So are you saying being a ruthless dictator isn't a good enough reason, it actually takes world support to protect oil supplies in addition to be good enough?

Just trying to understand. On one hand you say being a mad man is good enough, on the other you say being a mad that can threaten world economics is actually necessary when asked why we don't go after others.

Bottom line though, the stated reasons given for '03 were borderline criminally fabricated. No matter the end result, the means to get there rightfully piss a lot of people off.
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lol at trying to put words into my post.

No, I probably could name a bunch of folks in leadership positions that the world would probably be better if they ended up pushing daises. And they really have no economic sway over the world so to speak.

However, Saddam was in a position that was and continued to be a threat to the world's known reserves at the time. Now does your book talk about the continued decline of the US military and expenditure of American capital during the 90s when we had constant troop rotations in the Gulf far and above "presence?" Or Southern/Northern Watch? Or the fact that Saddam was actively harboring terror groups above and beyond what the USG considered terror groups? That last little tidbit I can say for a fact because I trust the source on; although I can't give you a valid link for, so just trust me, it's good info.

There were plenty of reasons to go into Iraq in 2003 to finish up what we started. And I'll even agree the reasons given by the Administration maybe weren't the best. But it needed to be done in my opinion.
 
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#845
#845
vol_in_ar said:
trail, then death penalty
should have never been brought to Gitmo
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If the verdict is all ready predetermined, just drop the charade of a fair trial and lob their head off. I for one though would have hoped we would be better than who we were fighting...
 
#846
#846
82_VOL_83 said:
Fify
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Back again with random insults, and no real argument.

It's a simple fact that the Bush administration lied about Iraq's nuclear capabilities and used the New York Times to help them do it.

Let's not forget their us of VNRs either.
 
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#849
#849
VolsNSkinsFan said:
So apparently 80 people in the 0 administration knew about the swap but congress was left in the dark, hmm.
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80?

And Congress was not "left in the dark." They were not notified when it was actually going to happen, that's true. But they knew for quite some time that it was being pursued.

And I've asked this before and no one has really said its incorrect -- I really doubt that had they given some kind of advance notice, let's say a week, that anyone in Congress would have objected. They don't have the power to stop it and all that leaking it would have done is been a breach of security.

The notice issue is a bit exaggerated, imo, and yes, even by Feinstein. I think the real issue here is as has been discussed recently, which is what is the long range plan for Gitmo and the detainees there?
 
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#850
#850
lawgator1 said:
80?

And Congress was not "left in the dark." They were not notified when it was actually going to happen, that's true. But they knew for quite some time that it was being pursued.

And I've asked this before and no one has really said its incorrect -- I really doubt that had they given some kind of advance notice, let's say a week, that anyone in Congress would have objected. They don't have the power to stop it and all that leaking it would have done is been a breach of security.

The notice issue is a bit exaggerated, imo, and yes, even by Feinstein. I think the real issue here is as has been discussed recently, which is what is the long range plan for Gitmo and the detainees there?
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is it possible for you to stop writing in half truths? Democrat house members said the administration acted improperly.
 
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