Looking back, should not have fired Phil

#176
#176
fade route said:
He's never been seriously pursued even after publicly saying he would like to coach again. You can keep calling me dumb if you want, but I'm right as usual.
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Rebuttals like this is why Fade is one of my favorite posters on this site.
 
#177
#177
BeattieFeathers said:
One year removed from Atlanta. Should have tried harder to get Cutcliffe instead of Fooley. Phil was hamstrung in who he could hire by Hamilton. We have made enough blunders to last a lifetime.:hi:
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I agree to a point, but keeping PF was NOT the answer, after DC left to go to Duke, the program relapsed into its old self with arrest and off the field issues. The 5-7 season was difficult to swallow in 2008, but far worse was the complete lack of discipline on and off the field.

One of the biggest reasons that Fulmer lost his job was because his teams had numerous players with arrests which had become a complete embarrassment to the program.

Hiring DC over Dooley was a complete no brainer, but Hamilton got that wrong too.
 
#178
#178
LWSVOL said:
I said 10 years ago that for 20 years after Fulmer was gone UT fans would be complaining about how he had run the program down. Just finished year 5 so only 15 more to read threads like this
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Most of UT's problems go back to Fulmer, he simply could not adapt, or improvise to sustain the great success that he experienced in the mid to late 90's. Hamilton gets the rest of the credit for failures, he's a snake at best.

Fulmer inherited a program in great shape, then he took it to another level with outstanding recruiting. But, after wining a BCS title in 1998, he retired on duty.

Simply put, The program was in much better shape when Fulmer took over in 1993 than the one he left in 2008!
 
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#180
#180
gunner said:
Most of UT's problems go back to Fulmer, he simply could not adapt, or improvise to sustain the great success that he experienced in the mid to late 90's. Hamilton gets the rest of the credit for failures, he's a snake at best.

Fulmer inherited a program in great shape, then he took it to another level with outstanding recruiting. But, after wining a BCS title in 1998, he retired on duty.

Simply put, The program was in much better shape when Fulmer took over in 1993 than the one he left in 2008!
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He didn't "retire" on duty. The conference begin to get better coaches and get better. Other schools began to get better players and moved up to level of Florida and Tennessee. Parity within the conference happened.

His effort didn't fall off but the outcomes of the effort did. His teams of the 2000's didn't have the talent level of the teams of the 90s. But wasn't lack of effort but lack of results.

Its no different today. Butch is putting forth the effort but still not getting the talent level as Alabama for example.

Bad results are not always lack of effort. its normally many factors that contribute.
 
#181
#181
Vol logic said:
Unfortunately it's not in the past. I love my school and literally catch hell about them nearly every single day, twice yesterday. I put in a bid to UT and they are so difficult to work with and had some bizarre stipulations that I finally had to withdraw. As much as I hate to say it, working with the "little Vatican" (Vandy) has been much simpler.
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What does this have to do with not firing Phil.
 
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#182
#182
BeattieFeathers said:
One year removed from Atlanta. Should have tried harder to get Cutcliffe instead of Fooley. Phil was hamstrung in who he could hire by Hamilton. We have made enough blunders to last a lifetime.:hi:
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Phil was old, fat, got lazy and allowed good coaches to leave...."Cut" does not have the energy of Butch !
Be PATIENT !!!!......:birgits_giggle:
 
#184
#184
LWSVOL said:
He didn't "retire" on duty. The conference begin to get better coaches and get better. Other schools began to get better players and moved up to level of Florida and Tennessee. Parity within the conference happened.

His effort didn't fall off but the outcomes of the effort did. His teams of the 2000's didn't have the talent level of the teams of the 90s. But wasn't lack of effort but lack of results.

Its no different today. Butch is putting forth the effort but still not getting the talent level as Alabama for example.

Bad results are not always lack of effort. its normally many factors that contribute.
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The bold says Fulmer tried but could not compete with the upgraded coaches other SEC hired. Not being able to compete or Phil becoming complacent brought us the same outcome, the downfall of the program.It was well past time for Fulmer to go. Hamiliton could have and should have handled departing ways with Fulmer with some respect to the man that gave many years to the program.
 
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#185
#185
Gramps said:
The bold says Fulmer tried but could not compete with the upgraded coaches other SEC hired. Not being able to compete or Phil becoming complacent brought us the same outcome, the downfall of the program.It was well past time for Fulmer to go. Hamiliton could have and should have handled departing ways with Fulmer with some respect to the man that gave many years to the program.
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I see this a lot and it makes me laugh

Hamilton didn't wipe his ass without permission from certain boosters.

If he had orchestrated that whole deal, his butt would have been gone right after the firing

Its comical to me to think our AD, especially Hamilton was the sole person behind the firing. He was just the ax man for more powerful players that saw what needed to be done
 
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#187
#187
BanditVol said:
Yeah, and all of them except Bryant would have been fired by today's standards. Vince Dooley was a barely above average coach who caught bottled lightning for three great years with Walker. His win % was similar to Johnny's but he lasted much longer. Vince coached from the early 60s to the early 90s and had many long stretches of mediocrity. He would not last 4 seasons in this era. Fulmer has a better win % than ANY of those coaches you mention. Hell, even Bryant was actually under fire in 1970, right before he finally integrated. Different era...I wonder if even he would have survived that stretch nowadays?
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I am the poster who brought up Charlie Mac, Bear Bryant, Shug Jordan, and Johnny Vaught. I was going to include Vince Dooley, but I didn't because I knew it would bring out the Dooley bashers, and I see that it has.

From what I understand, you think that we should not count the Herschel Walker years. We should just delete the years when coaches have their best players, I guess. Do you think that Fulmer should have an asterisk by the Manning years too?


As far as comparing Vince Dooley to Majors goes, here are some comparative stats.

Dooley: 201-77-10
Majors:116-62-8

SEC records:
Dooley: 104-42-4
Majors: 57-40-3

If I am reading this correctly, Dooley and Majors lost about the same number of SEC games, but Dooley won almost twice as many as Majors.

Dooley coached 25 years, and had only 1 losing season . He won or shared 6 SEC titles. He was second in the SEC 7 times. This means, again if I am reading my stats correctly, that Dooley finished either 1st or 2nd in the SEC just over half the time. He led Georgia to 20 bowl games in 25 years. He coached from 1964 through 1988. In the early years, there were nowhere near as many bowl games as now. You generally had to have a pretty decent season to qualify.

So, Dooley won about 73% of his games, lost 23%, and tied about 4%. Majors won about 56%, lost 41%, and tied 3%. Yeah, about the same..........NOT!
 
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#188
#188
CountVolcula said:
I see this a lot and it makes me laugh

Hamilton didn't wipe his ass without permission from certain boosters.

If he had orchestrated that whole deal, his butt would have been gone right after the firing

Its comical to me to think our AD, especially Hamilton was the sole person behind the firing. He was just the ax man for more powerful players that saw what needed to be done
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Who suggested Hamiliton was the sole person behind the firing?

The AD at any college is a puppet, the face and chief money raiser of the department. Hamilton was told to ax Phil. Hecould have handled the firing in a better way. Hamilton could have allowed Fulmer to step down after the season with some dignity. BTW I was in favor of Fulmer leaving, his time had come and gone. Say what you will but MH handled it terribly like he did most things.
 
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#189
#189
Gramps said:
Who suggested Hamiliton was the sole person behind the firing?

The AD at any college is a puppet, the face and chief money raiser of the department. Hamilton was told to ax Phil. Hecould have handled the firing in a better way. Hamilton could have allowed Fulmer to step down after the season with some dignity. BTW I was in favor of Fulmer leaving, his time had come and gone. Say what you will but MH handled it terribly like he did most things.
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We really aren't privy to his instructions for the dismissal, now are we?
 
#191
#191
gunner said:
I agree to a point, but keeping PF was NOT the answer, after DC left to go to Duke, the program relapsed into its old self with arrest and off the field issues. The 5-7 season was difficult to swallow in 2008, but far worse was the complete lack of discipline on and off the field.

One of the biggest reasons that Fulmer lost his job was because his teams had numerous players with arrests which had become a complete embarrassment to the program.

Hiring DC over Dooley was a complete no brainer, but Hamilton got that wrong too.
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Might want to recheck a few tiny details in your story. Think of a little place with a grove.
 
#192
#192
BeattieFeathers said:
One year removed from Atlanta. Should have tried harder to get Cutcliffe instead of Fooley. Phil was hamstrung in who he could hire by Hamilton. We have made enough blunders to last a lifetime.:hi:
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I vote we look forward. Why wallow in what could have been.

In the interest of looking forward, I vote we ban OP from starting any more threads on VN. :no:
 
#195
#195
Gramps said:
Who suggested Hamiliton was the sole person behind the firing?

The AD at any college is a puppet, the face and chief money raiser of the department. Hamilton was told to ax Phil. Hecould have handled the firing in a better way. Hamilton could have allowed Fulmer to step down after the season with some dignity. BTW I was in favor of Fulmer leaving, his time had come and gone. Say what you will but MH handled it terribly like he did most things.
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Fulmer himself could have made that happen. He just would not allow himself to see that he wasn't getting it done. His famous last words were "We've won alot of games around here doin' what we're doin' so we're not changing now."

EVERYONE in a competitive business has to understand what to change and when. He didn't.
 
#196
#196
Gramps said:
The bold says Fulmer tried but could not compete with the upgraded coaches other SEC hired. Not being able to compete or Phil becoming complacent brought us the same outcome, the downfall of the program.It was well past time for Fulmer to go. Hamiliton could have and should have handled departing ways with Fulmer with some respect to the man that gave many years to the program.
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I agree. But in Hamilton's defense (I can't believe I typed that), Phil would have never gone easily. He would and will never admit the game had passed him by.
 
#197
#197
1972 Grad said:
I am the poster who brought up Charlie Mac, Bear Bryant, Shug Jordan, and Johnny Vaught. I was going to include Vince Dooley, but I didn't because I knew it would bring out the Dooley bashers, and I see that it has.

From what I understand, you think that we should not count the Herschel Walker years. We should just delete the years when coaches have their best players, I guess. Do you think that Fulmer should have an asterisk by the Manning years too?


As far as comparing Vince Dooley to Majors goes, here are some comparative stats.

Dooley: 201-77-10
Majors:116-62-8

SEC records:
Dooley: 104-42-4
Majors: 57-40-3

If I am reading this correctly, Dooley and Majors lost about the same number of SEC games, but Dooley won almost twice as many as Majors.

Dooley coached 25 years, and had only 1 losing season . He won or shared 6 SEC titles. He was second in the SEC 7 times. This means, again if I am reading my stats correctly, that Dooley finished either 1st or 2nd in the SEC just over half the time. He led Georgia to 20 bowl games in 25 years. He coached from 1964 through 1988. In the early years, there were nowhere near as many bowl games as now. You generally had to have a pretty decent season to qualify.

So, Dooley won about 73% of his games, lost 23%, and tied about 4%. Majors won about 56%, lost 41%, and tied 3%. Yeah, about the same..........NOT!
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And all this is the reason his son is such a great coach. lol
 
#198
#198
Ace said:
And all this is the reason his son is such a great coach. lol
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And the reason that I didn't mention Vince Dooley in my original post is people like you. Some of you cannot move along, forget the past, and give Vince Dooley his due, because his son was not able to turn a crappy football team into world beaters.

There are numerous "Bash Derek Dooley" threads on Vol Nation. My post is about Vince Dooley. VINCE DOOLEY. Have you ever heard of him?
 
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#199
#199
I can't remember the last time I've seen as bs in one thread. Wait, there were a few others but this one might surpass them.
 
#200
#200
LWSVOL said:
He didn't "retire" on duty. The conference begin to get better coaches and get better. Other schools began to get better players and moved up to level of Florida and Tennessee. Parity within the conference happened.

His effort didn't fall off but the outcomes of the effort did. His teams of the 2000's didn't have the talent level of the teams of the 90s. But wasn't lack of effort but lack of results.

Its no different today. Butch is putting forth the effort but still not getting the talent level as Alabama for example.

Bad results are not always lack of effort. its normally many factors that contribute.
Click to expand...

It's hard to deny the fact that the program that he inherited was in much better shape than the one he left behind.
 
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