Official Global Warming thread (merged)

Pope at Audience: If we destroy Creation, it will destroy us

We are Custodians of Creation. But when we exploit Creation we destroy the sign of God’s love for us, in destroying Creation we are saying to God: “I don’t like it!. This is not good!” “So what do you like?” “I like myself!” – Here, this is sin! Do you see? Custody of Creation is custody of God’s gift to us and it is also a way of saying thank you to God. I am the master of Creation but to carry it forward I will never destroy your gift. And this should be our attitude towards Creation. Safeguard Creation. Because if we destroy Creation, Creation will destroy us! Never forget this!

Pontifical Academy of Sciences statement on Sustainable Humanity, Sustainable Nature: Our Responsibility

Today we have changed our natural environment to such an extent that scientists are redefining the current period as the Age of the Anthropocene, that is to say an age when human action, through the use of fossil fuels, is having a decisive impact on the planet. If current trends continue, this century will witness unprecedented climate changes and ecosystem destruction that will severely impact us all.

The massive fossil fuel use at the heart of the global energy system deeply disrupts the Earth’s climate and acidifies the world’s oceans. The warming and associated extreme weather will reach unprecedented levels in our children’s life times and 40% of the world’s poor, who have a minimal role in generating global pollution, are likely to suffer the most.

rushpope_590_475.jpg

You need to go over & convince China to get on board & understand all this BS talk you've been saying. Now if China would get on board & rein in some of what they do it just might help some. But since they are one of many big contributors of sending massive pollutants into the air of which they don't really care one thing about. Those living in parts of China walk around all day & night w/mask on so they don't breath in all that trashy air that's polluted. All this BS talking is not doing a thing as far as China is concerned.
 
No, Creationists believe something came from a Creator. Darwinists believe that it just happened and that nothing caused it. Darwinists are atheists. Creationists are not.

And, more to your point UGA DAWG is that we really need to be preparing as a civilization, our entire planet, for the next glacial period. We are in the Holocene interglacial now. Modern man has existed entirely in this Holocene period. The next glacial will wipe out most of our progress and mankind will just be in survival mode for tens of thousands of years.

old-lady-wat.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
"FT dropped a bombshell Friday afternoon with allegations that economist Thomas Piketty, author of the bestselling Capitalism in the 21st Century, contains a number of serious data errors — enough, it claims, to invalidate his thesis on rising wealth inequality."

"While many are questioning FT’s claims, some conservatives are having a field day. And a select few, apparently caught up in the headiness of the moment, are making this wrongheaded, inexplicable leap: that if Piketty was wrong (perhaps intentionally) about wealth inequality, that somehow makes it easier to believe that the world’s top climate scientists, and over 40 years of climate research, are wrong about global warming, too."

"Behold the lunacy"

Conservative wingnuts: Piketty allegations prove global warming’s a hoax - Salon.com

He wasn't "wrong" as the article says, he flat out lied. He cherry picked the data to fit his agenda and when it didn't fit, he made it up. It's pretty much the same playbook as GW pushers
 
Bla bla bla deflections. Just answer the question. Was Ronald Reagan a RINO? How about George Bush?

Do you even understand the difference between command & control regulation vs. market based systems?

Reagan was the conservative. We don't need a market-based solution for a non-problem and that's what Reagan would say today . Stop pretending you're a proponent of some market-based solution for this non-problem. You've stated many times you support a carbon tax. It is always inch by inch for you statist snakes.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Pope at Audience: If we destroy Creation, it will destroy us

We are Custodians of Creation. But when we exploit Creation we destroy the sign of God’s love for us, in destroying Creation we are saying to God: “I don’t like it!. This is not good!” “So what do you like?” “I like myself!” – Here, this is sin! Do you see? Custody of Creation is custody of God’s gift to us and it is also a way of saying thank you to God. I am the master of Creation but to carry it forward I will never destroy your gift. And this should be our attitude towards Creation. Safeguard Creation. Because if we destroy Creation, Creation will destroy us! Never forget this!

Pontifical Academy of Sciences statement on Sustainable Humanity, Sustainable Nature: Our Responsibility

Today we have changed our natural environment to such an extent that scientists are redefining the current period as the Age of the Anthropocene, that is to say an age when human action, through the use of fossil fuels, is having a decisive impact on the planet. If current trends continue, this century will witness unprecedented climate changes and ecosystem destruction that will severely impact us all.

The massive fossil fuel use at the heart of the global energy system deeply disrupts the Earth’s climate and acidifies the world’s oceans. The warming and associated extreme weather will reach unprecedented levels in our children’s life times and 40% of the world’s poor, who have a minimal role in generating global pollution, are likely to suffer the most.

rushpope_590_475.jpg

No, he's just wrong. Won't be the first time a Pope's been wrong.
 
"FT dropped a bombshell Friday afternoon with allegations that economist Thomas Piketty, author of the bestselling Capitalism in the 21st Century, contains a number of serious data errors — enough, it claims, to invalidate his thesis on rising wealth inequality."

"While many are questioning FT’s claims, some conservatives are having a field day. And a select few, apparently caught up in the headiness of the moment, are making this wrongheaded, inexplicable leap: that if Piketty was wrong (perhaps intentionally) about wealth inequality, that somehow makes it easier to believe that the world’s top climate scientists, and over 40 years of climate research, are wrong about global warming, too."

"Behold the lunacy"

Conservative wingnuts: Piketty allegations prove global warming’s a hoax - Salon.com

Salon.com, now that's an unbiased rag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Let's stop this cap and tax nonsense: from WSJ

Cap and trade is the tax that dare not speak its name, and Democrats are hoping in particular that no one notices who would pay for their climate ambitions. With President Obama depending on vast new carbon revenues in his budget and Congress promising a bill by May, perhaps Americans would like to know the deeply unequal ways that climate costs would be distributed across regions and income groups.


AP
Politicians love cap and trade because they can claim to be taxing "polluters," not workers. Hardly. Once the government creates a scarce new commodity -- in this case the right to emit carbon -- and then mandates that businesses buy it, the costs would inevitably be passed on to all consumers in the form of higher prices. Stating the obvious, Peter Orszag -- now Mr. Obama's budget director -- told Congress last year that "Those price increases are essential to the success of a cap-and-trade program."

Hit hardest would be the "95% of working families" Mr. Obama keeps mentioning, usually omitting that his no-new-taxes pledge comes with the caveat "unless you use energy." Putting a price on carbon is regressive by definition because poor and middle-income households spend more of their paychecks on things like gas to drive to work, groceries or home heating.

The Congressional Budget Office -- Mr. Orszag's former roost -- estimates that the price hikes from a 15% cut in emissions would cost the average household in the bottom-income quintile about 3.3% of its after-tax income every year. That's about $680, not including the costs of reduced employment and output. The three middle quintiles would see their paychecks cut between $880 and $1,500, or 2.9% to 2.7% of income. The rich would pay 1.7%. Cap and trade is the ideal policy for every Beltway analyst who thinks the tax code is too progressive (all five of them).

But the greatest inequities are geographic and would be imposed on the parts of the U.S. that rely most on manufacturing or fossil fuels -- particularly coal, which generates most power in the Midwest, Southern and Plains states. It's no coincidence that the liberals most invested in cap and trade -- Barbara Boxer, Henry Waxman, Ed Markey -- come from California or the Northeast.

Coal provides more than half of U.S. electricity, and 25 states get more than 50% of their electricity from conventional coal-fired generation. In Ohio, it totals 86%, according to the Energy Information Administration. Ratepayers in Indiana (94%), Missouri (85%), New Mexico (80%), Pennsylvania (56%), West Virginia (98%) and Wyoming (95%) are going to get soaked.

Another way to think about it is in terms of per capita greenhouse-gas emissions. California is the No. 2 carbon emitter in the country but also has a large economy and population. So the average Californian only had a carbon footprint of about 12 tons of CO2-equivalent in 2005, according to the World Resource Institute's Climate Analysis Indicators, which integrates all government data. The situation is very different in Wyoming and North Dakota -- paging Senators Mike Enzi and Kent Conrad -- where every person was responsible for 154 and 95 tons, respectively. See the nearby chart for cap and trade's biggest state winners and losers.


Democrats say they'll allow some of this ocean of new cap-and-trade revenue to trickle back down to the public. In his budget, Mr. Obama wants to recycle $525 billion through the "making work pay" tax credit that goes to many people who don't pay income taxes. But $400 for individuals and $800 for families still doesn't offset carbon's income raid, especially in states with higher carbon use.

All the more so because the Administration is lowballing its cap-and-trade tax estimates. Its stated goal is to reduce emissions 14% below 2005 levels by 2020, which assuming that four-fifths of emissions are covered (excluding agriculture, for instance), works out to about $13 or $14 per ton of CO2. When CBO scored a similar bill last year, it expected prices to start at $23 and rise to $44 by 2018. CBO also projected the total value of the allowances at $902 billion over the first decade, which is some $256 billion more than the Administration's estimate.

We asked the White House budget office for the assumptions behind its revenue estimates, but a spokesman said the Administration doesn't have a formal proposal and will work with Congress and "stakeholders" to shape one. We were also pointed to recent comments by Mr. Orszag that he was "sure there will be enough there to finance the things that we have identified" and maybe "additional money" too. In other words, Mr. Obama expects a much larger tax increase than even he is willing to admit.

Those "stakeholders" are going to need some very large bribes, starting with the regions that stand to lose the most. Led by Michigan's Debbie Stabenow, 15 Senate Democrats have already formed a "gang" demanding that "consumers and workers in all regions of the U.S. are protected from undue hardship." In practice, this would mean corporate welfare for carbon-heavy businesses.

And of course Congress is its own "stakeholder." An economy-wide tax under the cover of saving the environment is the best political moneymaker since the income tax. Obama officials are already telling the press, sotto voce, that climate revenues might fund universal health care and other new social spending. No doubt they would, and when they did Mr. Obama's cap-and-trade rebates would become even smaller.

Cap and trade, in other words, is a scheme to redistribute income and wealth -- but in a very curious way. It takes from the working class and gives to the affluent; takes from Miami, Ohio, and gives to Miami, Florida; and takes from an industrial America that is already struggling and gives to rich Silicon Valley and Wall Street "green tech" investors who know how to leverage the political class.

MORAL of the story: LIBERALS MUST LIE!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
Lobbing your usual hand grenades. But adding nothing.

Darwinists believe that it just happened and that nothing caused it.

False. It is true that SOME Darwinists believe such a thing but it is certainly not true of ALL Darwinists or that such a belief is necessarily entailed within Darwinism.

Darwinists are atheists.

False. I, along with plenty of other Darwinists, are not atheists.

Darwinism =/= theology/metaphysics.

The next glacial will wipe out most of our progress and mankind will just be in survival mode for tens of thousands of years.

Ridiculous. We are far past the days of needing perfect natural weather for feeding ourselves IF we deem investing in such alternatives (building out the infrastructure to greenhouse most if not all our food) as necessary. Progress will continue regardless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
False. It is true that SOME Darwinists believe such a thing but it is certainly not true of ALL Darwinists or that such a belief is necessarily entailed within Darwinism.



False. I, along with plenty of other Darwinists, are not atheists.

Darwinism =/= theology/metaphysics.

So, you believe in a Creator?

Ridiculous. We are far past the days of needing perfect natural weather for feeding ourselves IF we deem investing in such alternatives (building out the infrastructure to greenhouse most if not all our food) as necessary. Progress will continue regardless.

Have you ever lived in an Ice Age?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
So, you believe in a Creator?

Depends on what is entailed by "creator".

If by "creator" you mean an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent creator who interacts with his creation as found in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic theology, no.

I break reality up (conceptualize) into various levels. Any creator would be so many levels of reality removed that its existence would be totally inconsequential. However, I do suspect this there is one similar to a programmer in a computer simulation.

Natural laws/mathematics are the closest thing to "God" we have within our level or reality. Hence, why I am a pantheist.

Have you ever lived in an Ice Age?

Utterly irrelevant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Depends on what is entailed by "creator".

If by "creator" you mean an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent creator who interacts with his creation as found in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic theology, no.

I break reality up (conceptualize) into various levels. Any creator would be so many levels of reality removed that its existence would be totally inconsequential. However, I do suspect this there is one similar to a programmer in a computer simulation.

Then you're not a Darwinist.

Natural laws/mathematics are the closest thing to "God" we have within our level or reality. Hence, why I am a pantheist.

Pantheism just means you haven't committed to anything which is juxtaposed to your programmer above.

Utterly irrelevant.

How so? I was just trying to understand your statement that progress will continue? For instance, where are we going to build this greenhouse?

P.S.-I'm not just talking about a mini ice age like the one after the Roman warming period or Medieval warming period. I'm talking full blown glacial.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Then you're not a Darwinist.

Darwinism =/= metaphysics.

Pantheism just means you haven't committed to anything which is juxtaposed to your programmer above.

Idiotic. I guess you don't understand Pantheism either.

How so? I was just trying to understand your statement that progress will continue? For instance, where are we going to build this greenhouse?

P.S.-I'm not just talking about a mini ice age like the one after the Roman warming period or Medieval warming period. I'm talking full blown glacial.

Let's turn this around on you. How would you know that progress would be wiped out? Have YOU ever lived through an ice age? See how stupid that was? Great. Let's move on.

We can build greenhouses wherever we want. We could build them in skyscrapers or over existing fields. Whichever makes economic sense, given the technology we have available at that time.

Why would an ice age impede progress? Progress is made via observation, thinking (reason and creativity), and scientific experiment. What about colder temperatures would impede such a process when we have (and demonstrated) the ability to conquer environments that are not ideal?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Darwinism =/= metaphysics.
Ok, if you say so.
Idiotic. I guess you don't understand Pantheism either.

You hide your ignorance by throwing insults.

Let's turn this around on you. How would you know that progress would be wiped out? Have YOU ever lived through an ice age? See how stupid that was? Great. Let's move on.

Ok, I've read science books about glacial periods. I was just asking because you seem very naïve.

We can build greenhouses wherever we want. We could build them in skyscrapers or over existing fields. Whichever makes economic sense, given the technology we have available at that time.

So, we're going to build a bunch of skyscrapers and feed a lot of people that way? You know it would take a greenhouse about half the size of the state of California to feed us? Where are we going to get the water for irrigation of the greenhouse?

Why would an ice age impede progress? Progress is made via observation, thinking (reason and creativity), and scientific experiment. What about colder temperatures would impede such a process when we have (and demonstrated) the ability to conquer environments that are not ideal?

You do know if the next ice age was like the last then cities like New York, Boston, Washington, D.C., Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Cleveland, San Francisco, and Philadelphia will be gone? You do know that many of our lakes and rivers will be frozen over or completely dried-up like the Great Lakes and the Mississippi, Ohio, and Tennessee Rivers? Don't you think these things might impede our progress? Don't you think that expending a lot more of our resources just to keep people alive might impede our progress? Don't you think that extensive reductions in power output and manufacturing output might impede our progress? Oh, and you do know that the sea level dropped possibly 50-100m during the last ice age. Don't you think that might impede our progress? Just look at human progress. Do you think it is a coincidence that most of it has occurred during the Holocene?
 
Last edited:
Advertisement





Back
Top