Tennessee is NOT a good job

#176
#176
DocVol said:
Did that hurt stringing together all those made up words and run-on sentences?
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Wow! I see that you're also an English language and Composition professor. I'm sure in your opinion you're the most intelligent non-mortal on VN. What college are you the AD at? With your vast knowledge of athletics you are wasting your abilities not heading up the athletic department at a major university. JMO
Also, nothing I wrote hurt me because I'm old enough to realize that I don't know everything and that I'm not the most intelligent person in the world like you think you are.
 
#177
#177
DocVol said:
It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.
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Some of you don't know the routine pressure faced by coaches at universities where the fans actually care. Ask Calipari about the fans calling for his head just last year. TN isn't KY, but we are a big time athletic department with a good basketball program. Some coaches embrace it (Mears, Pearl) and some run from it (Martin). TN needs the right personality and all will be fine.
 
#178
#178
VolGee4 said:
I just don't think the job at UT is as good as some of our fans think it is. Is it a high level job? Yes. Is it top 30 like Jay Bilas says? Not sure but maybe close. But it would attract more high level coaches if UT paid more money. For the money that we pay and for the expectations that our fan base has created, it simply is not appealing to many high level coaches. That is why we go the mid major route. This is my school and my alma mater, and I will always root for it. But I am just trying to be realistic. I would like to see us pay decent money but know it probably won't happen.
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We're saying the same thing and calling it different names. For me it's a good job that doesn't pay enough, because when I think job quality I think of everything besides money (facilities, resources, etc.) and money as a separate issue. You're saying the lack of money weakens the job.

Same with interest. You seem to be defining it as "hiring someone," while I would say that even if we don't spend the money to hire Howland, he's definitely been interested. Aside from the labels, I think we think the same way.
 
#181
#181
Eddie Vol Halen said:
He didn't support Zo, he didn't try to keep the door ajar for the ringer, and he got caught sitting on his hands again when Zo bolted.

He won't attract a Tier One candidate, and he will not enunciate a vision for the basketball program or the Athletic Department as a whole.

Fire Dave Hart.
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I'm not sure Hart is the one dictating budgets. Even if it's Cheek, though, I still don't like either of them.
 
#182
#182
DocVol said:
Ok--then I'll sit back and watch UT hire one of the Top 30 coaches in America then....right?

What's that? Oh right.....crickets.
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The quality of a job, to most people, is the experience of being the Tennessee coach once you're here. Facilities, recruiting budgets, the fanbase, etc. money determines whether or not one TAKES said good job.

Everyone's right: it's a great job that won't pay enough to end up with a great coach. Most people are just also confused, because you're making money a factor in job quality when that's not how most people (Bilas and Gottlieb probably included) think about it.
 
#183
#183
VKAman said:
The quality of a job, to most people, is the experience of being the Tennessee coach once you're here. Facilities, recruiting budgets, the fanbase, etc. money determines whether or not one TAKES said good job.

Everyone's right: it's a great job that won't pay enough to end up with a great coach. Most people are just also confused, because you're making money a factor in job quality when that's not how most people (Bilas and Gottlieb probably included) think about it.
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isn't the baskeball recruiting budget ranked 75th in the country
 
#184
#184
Illlinois? They've been mostly bad for MANY years.

Arkansas? Please A backwater that has been mostly irrelevant for many years.

NC State--not much. We were much stronger with Pearl--and our situation in the SEC is MUCH better than ncstate in the acc. We have a much better chance of making the NCAA tourney.

UNLV? That's funny. Uh, it's 2014 not 1984

Xavier? Comparable.

Maryland? Stronger tradition but a crap athletic department. Program is down. They just joined the big 10, where they will struggle, because the athletic department is desperate for money.

Pitt? Some strong teams but hasn't accomplished much.

Marquette? Buzz Williams just fled from that school for va. tech. What does that tell you.

Okla. State? Decent but better than UT? No way.

Notre Dame: Really? That's a joke.

Here's the bottom line, fanboys: COACHES build and make programs. Yes, there are 12 big-tradition programs that are easier to roll along--but after them it's all about the coach and his staff. CT. was NOTHING before Calhoun. Many schools that have had some recent success were nobodies before they got the right coach--Zaga, VCU, Butler, etc. Many fairly prominent school fall off the map because of poor hires. Pearl raised our profile tremendously--he won and he was charismatic. He screwed up and got sacked and we were headed back to mediocrity, in my estimation, under Martin--a good man but DULL as dishwater and simply not a good coach. You hire a good coach, you get a good program again. Michigan floundered for years before hiring Beiline. It's all about the coach.
 
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#187
#187
VolArmy74 said:
Exactly what on earth makes Gonzaga a better program or job than Tennessee?

Or to be honest, Pitt? It may seem like they're this great program, but take a closer look at their history. It's very similar to ours, with a bit more pre-WWII success.

No clear idea on why Tennessee "fans" like to constantly insult and run down our program, even in the face of national basketball guys calling it a very good job/program.
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I have never insulted our program. I would take the job right now. But people think coaches are lining up to take it, and the right coaches that the program needs are not quite lining up in droves. 5 of our last 6 coaches have been either run out of town or taken a lateral job. The one that wasn't still lost his job for lying and put the school under restrictions. Why do we have to make a good hire 1 out of 6 times? All I am saying is make an investment. Making an investment actually shows how proud you are of the program. I know we aren't back financially, but our school has alot if resources and donors to make it happen.
 
#188
#188
VolGee4 said:
I have never insulted our program. I would take the job right now. But people think coaches are lining up to take it, and the right coaches that the program needs are not quite lining up in droves. 5 of our last 6 coaches have been either run out of town or taken a lateral job. The one that wasn't still lost his job for lying and put the school under restrictions. Why do we have to make a good hire 1 out of 6 times? All I am saying is make an investment. Making an investment actually shows how proud you are of the program. I know we aren't back financially, but our school has alot if resources and donors to make it happen.
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Agreed. The AD, for all intents and purposes, is a CEO. If I'm a CEO, and I keep appointing or promoting VPs who don't get the job done, then I'm ultimately at fault. Once is an anomaly. Twice is a pattern. Six times is insane.

Donors are tired of it too.
 
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#189
#189
DocVol said:
Agreed. The AD, for all intents and purposes, is a CEO. If I'm a CEO, and I keep appointing or promoting VPs who don't get the job done, then I'm ultimately at fault. Once is an anomaly. Twice is a pattern. Six times is insane.

Donors are tired of it too.
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I agree as well. Its laughable and pathetic. The AD got lucky and found Butch Jones on the cheap and that still hasnt proven a successful hire on the scoreboard yet.
 
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#191
#191
to me there is a group of about 10 programs that will put the resources into their program and have the tradition and fan insanity to be good over the long term - that can handle hiring a bad coach as they will throw crazy money at the next one to guarantee being good

then there are a group below that that have good resources, play in good conferences, you can win a title there, if you win big you can get paid big there, and these schools will be as good as the coach they hire - we are in that group imo

and if we hire a good coach we will be good and compete with anyone - and if that good coach stays for a long time then we could potentially move into that next group
 
#192
#192
VolArmy74 said:
Due to excessive cheating and rulebook wipeouts multiple times, they've been to the same number of tournaments as us and fewer sweet 16s.
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even with the "wiped out" years, we've still been to the Champ game in 1973, and elite 8's in 1992, 2006,2007

we've been much more successful than Tennessee in the NCAAs, vacated seasons or not.
 
#193
#193
Mphsbball said:
even with the "wiped out" years, we've still been to the Champ game in 1973, and elite 8's in 1992, 2006,2007

we've been much more successful than Tennessee in the NCAAs, vacated seasons or not.
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I think the Memphis job is on par with the UT job - but I don't just look at NCAA tourney success when measuring how good a job is

simple fact is when KY came calling your coach left for another college gig - and the same thing would happen at UT

Memphis just isnt on par with the true big boys but they are a solid bball program

Xavier has had a few good runs lately but it will never have the resources to pay a coach 4 million a year - a place like UT could do that - look what happened at Florida when Donovan started winning - so I will always view a school like that as a better job than a Xavier type regardless of recent tourney success
 
#194
#194
SCvol333 said:
I think the Memphis job is on par with the UT job - but I don't just look at NCAA tourney success when measuring how good a job is

simple fact is when KY came calling your coach left for another college gig - and the same thing would happen at UT

Memphis just isnt on par with the true big boys but they are a solid bball program

Xavier has had a few good runs lately but it will never have the resources to pay a coach 4 million a year - a place like UT could do that - look what happened at Florida when Donovan started winning - so I will always view a school like that as a better job than a Xavier type regardless of recent tourney success
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Are you kidding me right now? So you think if Pastner were to be called by UT and offered the job at Tennessee that he would leave Memphis to come coach here? You're insane.
 
#195
#195
Calipari didn't leave Memphis b/c of money. We offered as much or more than UK did. He left for a chance to coach at the biggest program in America and b/c the NCAA was knocking at his door. If KY had not hired him, he was probably headed to Arizona.
 
#196
#196
DocVol said:
Are you kidding me right now? So you think if Pastner were to be called by UT and offered the job at Tennessee that he would leave Memphis to come coach here? You're insane.
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Lets not be ridiculous. At least post something realistic
 
#197
#197
DocVol said:
Are you kidding me right now? So you think if Pastner were to be called by UT and offered the job at Tennessee that he would leave Memphis to come coach here? You're insane.
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what exactly did Pastner coming to UT have to do with anything I said?

quick answer - nothing

point was neither are top tier jobs and both would lose their coach to one of the true big boys - so both are in that next cut

Pastner will be lucky to keep his job, but if we go with him being a good coach then you are likely right - he wouldnt come to UT - no more than Pearl would have gone to Memphis

again - comparable programs - one wouldnt leave for the other
 
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#198
#198
Mphsbball said:
Calipari didn't leave Memphis b/c of money. We offered as much or more than UK did. He left for a chance to coach at the biggest program in America and b/c the NCAA was knocking at his door. If KY had not hired him, he was probably headed to Arizona.
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everyone in america knows his name right now b/c he is at a legit big boy school - bball fans knew who he was at Memphis - but outside of TN Memphis just isnt a big deal - KY bball is - UNC bball is - the true big boys just have a different seat at the table than Memphis - they are in the next cut

just like TN
 
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#199
#199
SCvol333 said:
what exactly did Pastner coming to UT have to do with anything I said?

quick answer - nothing

point was neither are top tier jobs and both would lose their coach to one of the true big boys - so both are in that next cut

Pastner will be lucky to keep his job, but if we go with him being a good coach then you are likely right - he wouldnt come to UT - no more than Pearl would have gone to Memphis

again - comparable programs - one wouldnt leave for the other
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hard to say Martin wouldn't have come to Memphis (which is a much better job than Cal) when he just left to take a lesser job than Mem or Tenn

also, define "top tier". I've heard Parish say multiple times that Memphis is one of the 10 best jobs in America. He's probably a little too over the top, but its easily in the 10-20 range based on salary, facilities, fan support, recruiting base, and now conf affiliation.
 
#200
#200
Mphsbball said:
hard to say Martin wouldn't have come to Memphis (which is a much better job than Cal) when he just left to take a lesser job than Mem or Tenn

also, define "top tier". I've heard Parish say multiple times that Memphis is one of the 10 best jobs in America. He's probably a little too over the top, but its easily in the 10-20 range based on salary, facilities, fan support, recruiting base, and now conf affiliation.
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and all I am saying is that there is not much difference from a school that is top 10-20 and top 20-30 as far as how good a job it is

i would say the coach at a job that is 25th typically won't leave for anything that isnt top 5-10 and maybe not even that

and if they are really a good coach they can have great success at that level of a program

so you can argue all day long about one school being maybe 15 and another being maybe 25 - but at the end of the day neither are the top cut - and both are in the next cut

both have all the factors you need to have longterm success - really good arenas, great attendance, financial stability

they just have to hire the right coach - we will see if Hart can do that
 
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