TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#452
#452
FLVOL69 said:
You can be anything here on vn.
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That is true. I am a 13 year old pregnant girl living with my mother and 5 sisters. That goodness for Medicaid , wices and food stamps.. Life is Good.. I actually have these idiots thinking I am a wise old man..... well at least an old man. :)
 
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#454
#454
Gramps said:
TN made a heck of a comeback .down by 15 in second half and lose by 2. Martin actually made some good adjustments.
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I agree Martin may have made me change my mind on him. I mean take away Michigans great 3 pt shooting and we win by a good margin.
 
#455
#455
Grand Vol said:
Common sense lol. You speak as if that is prevalent in the education system.

But here's the thing. No matter what, someone will find something objectionable, lewd, offense, etc. I find it offensive that students were not allowed to wear American flag apparel on the 5th of May. But the most offensive thing I see? The fact that the majority of the people in this country make the claim to be religious, but the extreme minority here gets to object and their objections prevail over the majority. Oh, I'm so sorry someone's feelings got hurt. Perhaps a box of tissue will help.

Big picture here? It is a molehill that is being made into a mountain by those who want nothing more than to kill the beliefs of those that happen to make a choice to be religious. And this whole nonsense that students are going to start preaching and using schools as a platform to advance a religious cause is just stupid. And the outrage that anyone would dare actually use the Lord's name in a formal setting causes the worst temper tantrums I've ever seen even though, again, the majority of this nation believes in a supreme being.
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You either didn't read my earlier post about my wife's experiences in Tennessee public schools, or just are conveniently ignoring it. Straw mans aside though, you basically agree with me that we have no capacity to determine what is questionable, lewd, offensive, or objectionable material for a student speaker. So you agree with me on that point. Why then does this proposed law purport to be able to determine this?

Your post also confirms that you're for oligarchic democracy, which is what this bill allows. No wonder you support it. Why don't you care about minority dissent?

Also, stop talking about crybabies and whiners. It's not only irritating and irrational; it's counterproductive. And since being a manly man apparently means so much to you, why don't you start arguing like a man, instead of resorting to straw mans or "crybaby accusations" to prove your illegitimate point?
 
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#460
#460
And just like that, I have manipulated your vulnerable minds into talking about basketball.

Consider yourself indoctrinated. :)


(I thought that was a pretty garbage call as well)
 
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#461
#461
Septic said:
Terrible call on Stokes, let the boys play.
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It was close enough to justify the call, but I agree: let 'em play. Particularly in that situation. It was not egregious enough to justify the call at that point in the game.
 
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#463
#463
volprof said:
It was close enough to justify the call, but I agree: let 'em play. Particularly in that situation. It was not egregious enough to justify the call at that point in the game.
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That was a no call, the defender only had one foot on the ground and was sliding. Total flop.

With 6 seconds left you put the whistle in your pocket and don't get it out unless theres blood.
 
#464
#464
Septic said:
That was a no call, the defender only had one foot on the ground and was sliding. Total flop.

With 6 seconds left you put the whistle in your pocket and don't get it out unless theres blood.
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Agree. Just trying to rationalize the call.
 
#466
#466
volprof said:
You either didn't read my earlier post about my wife's experiences in Tennessee public schools, or just are conveniently ignoring it. Straw mans aside though, you basically agree with me that we have no capacity to determine what is questionable, lewd, offensive, or objectionable material for a student speaker. So you agree with me on that point. Why then does this proposed law purport to be able to determine this?
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No, I missed your post on that matter.

volprof said:
Your post also confirms that you're for oligarchic democracy, which is what this bill allows. No wonder you support it. Why don't you care about minority dissent?
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There is a huge difference in caring about minority dissent and letting it be the rule of law. Which is exactly where this country has gone. Each and every time a minority dissent gets attention, we have to change as a whole to avoid offending anyone. This isn't a strawman argument, this is reality whether you want to admit it or not. And we aren't talking about voting rights or the ability to own land. We are talking about a student expressing their personal faith in something they might hold close to them. And it's a sad state of affairs these days when we have to legislate the ability for them to do so.

volprof said:
Also, stop talking about crybabies and whiners. It's not only irritating and irrational; it's counterproductive. And since being a manly man apparently means so much to you, why don't you start arguing like a man, instead of resorting to straw mans or "crybaby accusations" to prove your illegitimate point?
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It may be annoying and irritating...and happens to be the truth.
 
#467
#467
Grand Vol said:
No, I missed your post on that matter.

Obviously. Had you read it, you would recognize that this bill will only further consolidate power for conservative Christians. There's a reason why absolutely no one responded to it. And it proves that this bill will only lead to bullying and bad things. A far cry from precious religious freedom.

There is a huge difference in caring about minority dissent and letting it be the rule of law. Which is exactly where this country has gone. Each and every time a minority dissent gets attention, we have to change as a whole to avoid offending anyone. This isn't a strawman argument, this is reality whether you want to admit it or not. And we aren't talking about voting rights or the ability to own land. We are talking about a student expressing their personal faith in something they might hold close to them. And it's a sad state of affairs these days when we have to legislate the ability for them to do so.

So how is this different from an oligarchic, or elitist understanding of democracy? I know a plurality rules in our elections. Okay, that's fine. That's practical. At some point we have to draw a line. But why does a minority have to be subjected to the rule of the majority in a public school setting, which is what this bill will allow (if not in principle) de facto?

It may be annoying and irritating...and happens to be the truth.
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You've not addressed my ultimate problem with this bill one bit. You keep skirting around it in fact. You're obviously working with a contemporary conservative Christian (and I specify this, because it's unstable and is subject to change according to historical period) understanding of morality and values. In fact, this helps you determine what is objectionable, lewd, and offensive.

Who determines what is questionable, lewd, and offensive? I've already stated at least three times that I consider the Bible lewd and offensive (with the exception of Jesus's purported teachings). How anyone could argue in support of its genocidal rationalization is beyond me, but that's just one reason why we can't locate a position to determine what perspectives are questionable, lewd, and offensive. I feel like a broken record, but you're forcing me to be.

Anyhow, it's clear here and clear as day elsewhere, that you won't ever admit defeat nor will you go down without a fight. So, I'll allow you to have the final say. Have at it.
 
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#470
#470
I will reply though that you obviously only pick and choose whatever you want to out of the Bible, Old and New Testament both. And in your specific case, you like to pick out the bad things instead of any of the good. To each their own I suppose. I take the good with the bad, each as a learning lesson. Some to be used, some as a reminder not to be used. But as a whole, there are some great teachings and lessons to be learned.

And this whole skirting around the issue. I have not. I have repeatedly said I think this happens to be a bunch of anti-religion fanatics making a mountain out of a molehill especially in here. There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING in this bill that even comes close to this oligarchical/theocratic system you speak of. At worst, those that like to whine and cry object to a student being able to put their faith forward in a public fashion is ALL that's at stake here. At best this will protect ALL religions that will be encountered in the State of Tennessee. And this is something you fail to comprehend or realize. This isn't about Christianity, this is about the system finally getting set back into balance. The majority finally having their say for a change against the screeches of the minority that object to EVERYTHING! And that is what this entire thing boils down to, the majority is finally tired of being told what to do and what to say and please don't say this because you might offend someone. People are way, way, way too sensitive these days and are ready to jump at any chance they get to be "offended" at anything that is said or done. And as a culture we are way, way, way too eager to back down without standing up for the things WE believe in.

People like you and Septic keep beating the war drums of being offended any time religion is even mentioned in a public setting and brow beat the silent majority to bend to your will. Well, finally someone had the balls to stand up for the Rights of the religious members of the student bodies in this State. And it was past time. PAST! So you want to know how I feel about this by being able to look at it objectively? There it is. People want to be offended by a student saying God or the Lord or Jesus in a formal setting? Then please GTFO of the State of Tennessee and move someplace else. People don't like the fact this got passed in the Legislature? Fine, get your sorry ass out to the polls in the next vote and exercise your human right of choice and put someone else in that would crumble and rather not make waves. But me? I'm finally glad someone, a whole Legislature in fact, decided to stand up to the bullies that continually scream about political correctness.

Now this whole lewd, offensive and whatnot...get real. You and I both know there is formal etiquette that should/will be observed for this. So a student writes a speech where they want to drop the F bomb multiple times. Is that their freedom of speech? Yes. Should that be done in that particular environment? So you find the Bible lewd and offensive? And I go back to my opening paragraph, that you pick and choose only the bad parts you want to see just like others want to still cling to the fact that Christians started the Crusades a millennium ago and blame current day Christians for the sins of their forefathers. It is little different than black people that want to continue to lay the blame on slavery on whites. But you and I both know what is formally acceptable and what isn't so stop with the thought process that a graduation is going to become a sermon on the mount.

And yes, I fight for the things I believe in. And will continue to fight even as I might be going down. And I think it's sad that you believe this is a bad thing.
 
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#471
#471
Obsessed said:
Aids is man made.
I believe in evolution. I believe it co-exist with a supreme being
Ozone is fine
Vaccines have taken some lives
Big Bang- it's a marvelous theory.
I also believe we aren't alone in this universe.
More than one shooter at JFK.

Etc etc etc
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Interesting. How do you feel about the moon landing?
 
#473
#473
BigOrangeTrain said:
Shows how stupid you actually are. I personally do not believe vaccines DO cause autism. However there is SOME research that says they CAN cause autism. I recognize that there COULD be a link between vaccines and autism. That's what I said. You could be wrong. So could I. It's not such a cut and dry issue. It's like cancer. We don't know exactly what causes cancer. Smoking CAN cause cancer but we cannot say it DOES cause cancer.

Please do yourself a favor and let the adults speak. You need to confine yourself to the government sheep and kiddie table.
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From a few days ago:

BigOrangeTrain said:
Vaccines can be a cause of autism.
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:no:

What is wrong with you people? Vaccines do not ****ing cause autism. Tobacco is carcinogenic. Science denialism has literally killed hundreds of thousands of people.
 
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