TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#202
#202
Grand Vol said:
So I guess I'll ask the obvious question...

Is there any factual basis from anything in the Bible? Old or New Testament, doesn't matter.
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it's a story loosely wrapped around actual historical events (kinda like the Da Vinci Code). The issue comes in the claim of supernatural events and abilities
 
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#207
#207
utvolpj said:
it's a story loosely wrapped around actual historical events (kinda like the Da Vinci Code). The issue comes in the claim of supernatural events and abilities
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And each grows taller with each telling (although the Bible hasn't) as more people tell it.

But on the supernatural events and abilities. Who is to say those aren't exaggerated? Think of Noah since this seems to be a topic of conversations as of late. Is there any historical backing for that specific story? Or was it passed down generation after generation and grew a bit taller until incorporation into the Bible as we know it? There is historical backing in a great deluge that happened as well as many cultures that didn't have contact with each other having a similar story. So is there some truth there that was greatly exaggerated over the centuries?

Think about how "supernatural" technology today would seem to those 3,000 years ago. The ability to talk to thousands of people across the world at the same time? That would have been godlike in their eyes.
 
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#209
#209
MercyPercy said:
To be fair, I'm not sure where you were trying to go with that line of questioning. Care to enlighten me?
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Okay, I'll rephrase the question:

Is there any factual basis from anything in the Bible? Old or New Testament, doesn't matter.

That's pretty specific.
 
#212
#212
Grand Vol said:
Again, nice dodge.
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That answer, cute as it may have been, was still actually pertinent to your question. The Bible mentions places that are real, thus exist in a factual basis.

When you say "anything", your parameters are far too wide. Do you mean specific events? Like miracles? Animals walking two by two? Parting of seas? Magic fish multiplication?

I'd say there's no factual basis for those events.
 
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#213
#213
Not that hard to give a straight answer is it?

But we go back to the post where I asked if the stories and tales throughout the Bible could be exaggerations (could be extreme depending on your point of view) of actual events. Is this not possible?
 
#214
#214
Grand Vol said:
Not that hard to give a straight answer is it?

But we go back to the post where I asked if the stories and tales throughout the Bible could be exaggerations (could be extreme depending on your point of view) of actual events. Is this not possible?
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For example, a man named Jesus fed some hungry people with fish and bread. Over time this story evolved into him multiplying the food through godly means and fed a lot more people.

Sure. I can roll with that. I'm not sure what the point is here though, considering the literal interpretation of the Bible is that he actually did those things, and that's what most believe.
 
#215
#215
Grand Vol said:
And each grows taller with each telling (although the Bible hasn't) as more people tell it.

But on the supernatural events and abilities. Who is to say those aren't exaggerated? Think of Noah since this seems to be a topic of conversations as of late. Is there any historical backing for that specific story? Or was it passed down generation after generation and grew a bit taller until incorporation into the Bible as we know it? There is historical backing in a great deluge that happened as well as many cultures that didn't have contact with each other having a similar story. So is there some truth there that was greatly exaggerated over the centuries?

Think about how "supernatural" technology today would seem to those 3,000 years ago. The ability to talk to thousands of people across the world at the same time? That would have been godlike in their eyes.
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I think it got bigger before the Bible was ever written. It's not like everything is a first-hand account

could there have been a flood and some dude named Noah had a party barge? Sure. Did his boat contain a pair of every known animal? I'm skeptical
 
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#216
#216
utvolpj said:
I think it got bigger before the Bible was ever written. It's not like everything is a first-hand account

could there have been a flood and some dude named Noah had a party barge? Sure. Did his boat contain a pair of every known animal? I'm skeptical
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Back on target here PJ.

You must have missed my question to you on how you can properly teach a subject such as world history without discussing religion?
 
#217
#217
utvolpj said:
how many kids are given the choice to attend church on Sundays or stay home and play games? I grew up in TN and didn't know any who were allowed to stay home while mom and dad went to church
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My ass was dragged to church whether I liked it or not. Making my own decisions about existential, spiritual matters never crossed my parents' minds.
 
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#218
#218
hog88 said:
Back on target here PJ.

You must have missed my question to you on how you can properly teach a subject such as world history without discussing religion?
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you can discuss the impact of religion without discussing theology or doctrine. I understand things like the Crusades are history but once someone throws out "he died for our sins" it stops being historically accurate
 
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#219
#219
utvolpj said:
we didn't talk about religion because the wise TN legislators hadn't seen fit to pass such a wonderful bill yet. We had to learn math and science all day instead
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When I went to public school the teachers read the Bible and said a prayer and pledge of allegiance every morning. That was of course before our liberal government passed laws to not allow it. We still had time to learn English, Arithmetic, History, Spelling, Geography and still had time for physical education and recess.
 
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#220
#220
utvolpj said:
you can discuss the impact of religion without discussing theology or doctrine. I understand things like the Crusades are history but once someone throws out "he died for our sins" it stops being historically accurate
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I agree with your very last statement but the problem has been the complete stripping of religion from school. To fully learn history you need to not only know who and when you also need to understand the why. Religion has been the why in a great many historical events.
 
#221
#221
Gramps said:
When I went to public school the teachers read the Bible and said a prayer and pledge of allegiance every morning. That was of course before our liberal government passed laws to not allow it. We still had time to learn English, Arithmetic, History, Spelling, Geography and still had time for physical education and recess.
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Gramps that was before they had self esteem classes, tolerance classes and anti bullying classes. You know real subject matter.
 
#222
#222
Gramps said:
When I went to public school the teachers read the Bible and said a prayer and pledge of allegiance every morning. That was of course before our liberal government passed laws to not allow it. We still had time to learn English, Arithmetic, History, Spelling, Geography and still had time for physical education and recess.
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And everyone was probably just so nice to everyone else, and it was utopia on Earth.
 
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#223
#223
hog88 said:
I agree with your very last statement but the problem has been the complete stripping of religion from school. To fully learn history you need to not only know who and when you also need to understand the why. Religion has been the why in a great many historical events.
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You can learn about religion in school without participating in religiosity. I don't think anyone is advocating wiping the effects of religion from history classes.


But we're talking about science class.
 
#225
#225
Gramps said:
When I went to public school the teachers read the Bible and said a prayer and pledge of allegiance every morning. That was of course before our liberal government passed laws to not allow it. We still had time to learn English, Arithmetic, History, Spelling, Geography and still had time for physical education and recess.
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that's great but what if I didn't want to be forced to listen a biblical prayer every morning since I wasn't a Christian? Were the kids allowed to opt out or were other religions allowed to get involved? If not then I see zero problem with ending that tradition
hog88 said:
I agree with your very last statement but the problem has been the complete stripping of religion from school. To fully learn history you need to not only know who and when you also need to understand the why. Religion has been the why in a great many historical events.
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actually I don't see that as a problem

see, I can grasp the fact that a religion would consider a site holy. I can even understand what supposed holy acts were performed on that site and their importance at the time. Now, if we can avoid discussing whether or not those acts were truly magical and worthy of worship and obedience then I think we can come to an understanding. What are the odds we can avoid that in a HS class in TN?
 
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