TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

[Obsessed]

how many kids are given the choice to attend church on Sundays or stay home and play games? I grew up in TN and didn't know any who were allowed to stay home while mom and dad went to church

Are you serious PJ?

Come on man. That's the parents decision and rightfully so. When the kid gets older it will then be their decision.

And by your logic, how many of the same kids would have rather stayed home from school as well?

 

[Velo Vol]

Quit crying, crybabies.

 

[Septic]

Why cant the children decide their own religious beliefs as they get older?

Because indoctrination works best with the young. Kids are taught not to question adults - they have no reason to believe that there are or could be alternate explanations.

Breaking the chains or religious indoctrination as you get older are very difficult, even with the acquired ability to use reason and logic.

It's easier to keep the status quo than to come to the realization that you could possibly be wrong. Getting an educated adult to buy in to the notion of a unheard, unseen superhero that is all powerful is FAR more difficult than scaring the crap out of impressionable children.

 

[utvolpj]

Are you serious PJ?

Come on man. That's the parents decision and rightfully so. When the kid gets older it will then be their decision.

And by your logic, how many of the same kids would have rather stayed home from school as well?

oh so there's an age limit on letting kids make their own decisions? Was that in this bill or does it not specify?

school is a legal issue and not a choice like church. Forcing your kids to sit beside you in the pew is not allowing them to make their own decision

 

[MercyPercy]

I brought my gameboy into church. Might as well do something productive with that time. My Pokemon weren't gonna level themselves.

 

[Obsessed]

oh so there's an age limit on letting kids make their own decisions? Was that in this bill or does it not specify?

school is a legal issue and not a choice like church. Forcing your kids to sit beside you in the pew is not allowing them to make their own decision

Yes there's an age limit. What other decisions do you let your kids make PJ? Do you allow them to play in the street after dark? Wonder off in target by themselves?

School is not a legal issue. You can home school your kids.

You are obviously still mad at your mom and dad for making you go to Sunday school.

 

[Septic]

I have kids. I've been to many assemblys. They have done things I didn't and don't agree with. But I'm not going to keep my kids from seeing/hearing these things because I don't agree with it. I let my kids make their own decisions. God forbid we let our children think for themselves.

Most religious parents do not offer the choice on whether or not their kids attend sunday school, vacation babble school.

I would argue that's not letting children think for themselves.

I've taught my kids to question everything, not to assume what every adult tells them is accurate and to use reason, logic and evidence as their guide to forming an opinion.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Because indoctrination works best with the young. Kids are taught not to question adults - they have no reason to believe that there are or could be alternate explanations.

Breaking the chains or religious indoctrination as you get older are very difficult, even with the acquired ability to use reason and logic.

It's easier to keep the status quo than to come to the realization that you could possibly be wrong. Getting an educated adult to buy in to the notion of a unheard, unseen superhero that is all powerful is FAR more difficult than scaring the crap out of impressionable children.

Exactly. Christians have to force feed it to their children when they are young so that they are too afraid to question it when they get older. Pretty sad really.

 

[utvolpj]

Yes there's an age limit. What other decisions do you let your kids make PJ? Do you allow them to play in the street after dark? Wonder off in target by themselves?

I'm not the one who made the claim

I let my kids make their own decisions.

if they are being inundated with religious messages daily over the loudspeaker then it's tough for them to make their own decisions. If they want to turn to religion then that is a choice but this is not.

School is not a legal issue. You can home school your kids.

You are obviously still mad at your mom and dad for making you go to Sunday school.

the choice between school and home school would have been an easy one for me and would be for most kids. Of course it unlikely they get the choice if home schooled. That was also not a distinction you made initially by saying "stayed home from school" but that's ok

I'm not mad at my parents. I enjoyed the social aspect of church but as I got older I realized the teachings really didn't make much sense. I have no issues with parents forcing their kids to church on Sundays but just keep it out of my kid's head from Monday - Friday

 

[Septic]

Exactly. Christians have to force feed it to their children when they are young so that they are too afraid to question it when they get older. Pretty sad really.

Not just christians. It's all of them - but you're right.

 

[Septic]

I enjoyed the social aspect of church but as I got older I realized the teachings really didn't make much sense.

I agree completely, I went to Windy Gap in North Carolina which is a Young Life "resort" my freshman year (summer) of high school.

Young Life is a non denominational christian organization that was popular in my high school, mostly for the social aspect and similar to FCA.

It was a great summer until the night they started witnessing - that was just straight awkward. Fortunately, it didn't last too long and I was able to sneak off with some little tart from Ohio and get a little stinky finger, which was nice.

 

[BeecherVol]

You are either not being honest with yourself, or have no contact with other Christians. I would say that the majority of Christians are both afraid and vehemently against secular education.

I attended and met the requirements to pass somehow.
Im not naïve enough to think that doesn't exist tho.

Most of the people I went to school with didn't want to be there anyway.

 

[volinbham]

Only read first couple pages of this thread but it's interesting how people who didn't read the bill start talking about what it will do. Does it say religious beliefs should impact grading or does it just say you can state your religious belief without being discriminated for it.

If it's the former then of course I have a problem with it. If it's the latter then what's wrong with a student expressing their religious beliefs? Seems pretty straight forward 1st amendment issue.

 

[utvolpj]

Only read first couple pages of this thread but it's interesting how people who didn't read the bill start talking about what it will do. Does it say religious beliefs should impact grading or does it just say you can state your religious belief without being discriminated for it.

If it's the former then of course I have a problem with it. If it's the latter then what's wrong with a student expressing their religious beliefs? Seems pretty straight forward 1st amendment issue.

it says

This bill specifies that a student may express beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. A student would not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of the student's work.

I believe that language is extremely vague and allows for way too much interpretation. Anyone who writes a paper that contains their religious beliefs will claim any criticism was based on that.

 

[FLVOL69]

I agree completely, I went to Windy Gap in North Carolina which is a Young Life "resort" my freshman year (summer) of high school.

Young Life is a non denominational christian organization that was popular in my high school, mostly for the social aspect and similar to FCA.

It was a great summer until the night they started witnessing - that was just straight awkward. Fortunately, it didn't last too long and I was able to sneak off with some little tart from Ohio and get a little stinky finger, which was nice.

Should have told her to wipe her ass after dropping a deuce, congratulations stud.

 

[volinbham]

it says

I believe that language is extremely vague and allows for way too much interpretation. Anyone who writes a paper that contains their religious beliefs will claim any criticism was based on that.

they may claim it but people claim all sorts of things.

"will not be rewarded or punished" - seems pretty clear to me that you don't get credit for the 6000 year old earth theory if the discussion is evolution.

I don't think we need a bill for this but I see a lot of over reaction in this thread.

 

[Septic]

Should have told her to wipe her ass after dropping a deuce, congratulations stud.

You're doing it wrong.

 

[utvolpj]

they may claim it but people claim all sorts of things.

"will not be rewarded or punished" - seems pretty clear to me that you don't get credit for the 6000 year old earth theory if the discussion is evolution.

I don't think we need a bill for this but I see a lot of over reaction in this thread.

maybe they shouldn't but the first person marked down because their 6000yo earth theory is useless will take to the courts. It opens up an avenue to inject religion where it has no business being

 

[volinbham]

maybe they shouldn't but the first person marked down because their 6000yo earth theory is useless will take to the courts. It opens up an avenue to inject religion where it has no business being

Speculation. So what if they take it to the courts? The law doesn't say that person will win.

I disagree that a student has no business injecting their religion in their expression in any venue. There is nothing sacred about school that overrides one's 1st amendment rights.

Like I said, I don't know that we need this law as it should already be SOP but that doesn't mean students aren't currently being discriminated against in some cases.

 

[utvolpj]

Speculation. So what if they take it to the courts? The law doesn't say that person will win.

I disagree that a student has no business injecting their religion in their expression in any venue. There is nothing sacred about school that overrides one's 1st amendment rights.

Like I said, I don't know that we need this law as it should already be SOP but that doesn't mean students aren't currently being discriminated against in some cases.

why should the courts be forced to address grading issues? I just see this adding an unneeded complexity to the learning process that is already failing.

it just addresses a non-existent issue

 

[volinbham]

why should the courts be forced to address grading issues? I just see this adding an unneeded complexity to the learning process that is already failing.

1. you are jumping to the conclusion that they will have to address grading issues.

2. even without this law someone could sue about their grading.

3. I've repeatedly said I don't know that the law is necessary but do believe strongly that students should be able to do what the law is suggesting without fear of discrimination.

 

[utvolpj]

1. you are jumping to the conclusion that they will have to address grading issues.

2. even without this law someone could sue about their grading.

3. I've repeatedly said I don't know that the law is necessary but do believe strongly that students should be able to do what the law is suggesting without fear of discrimination.

they already can do it. Kids aren't being marked down for discussing religion where its warranted. The issue doesn't exist

as I read it, the main push of the bill though it to try and give equal time to religious speakers/groups by comparing them to ones that actually apply to school activities. Got a football pep rally? Then we get one for Jesus. Announce a basketball game over the loudspeaker? Then we get to announce our prayers too. However I can't wait for the first Muslim call to prayer announced over the intercom. There will be nowhere to run for the people who pushed this bill though

there's a small group who truly believes Christians are being persecuted in schools. I've seen nothing to suggest that is true.

 

[Velo Vol]

there's a small group who truly believes Christians are being persecuted in schools. I've seen nothing to suggest that is true.

Small group? Not based on the amount of noise it makes.

 

[hog88]

how many kids are given the choice to attend church on Sundays or stay home and play games? I grew up in TN and didn't know any who were allowed to stay home while mom and dad went to church

It's called family time, what's wrong with that?

 

[hog88]

How about we let kids talk about their religious beliefs in an elective religion class instead of wasting science class's time with it?

How about a free flow of ideas and allowing kids to explain beliefs or disagreement without judgement?