Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XI

#5,154
#5,154
I'm not an attorney but wouldn't the Court ruling concerning the Northwestern football team being allowed to unionize because it considered them to be "employees" of the university not open up the players and anyone else on a scholarship with school costs and/or board paid for to be liable to pay income tax on the value of the scholarship?
If the Court "makes" them employees with this ruling then the scholarship and board cost would have to be their pay. This could also have an effect on parents that work in a State job that gets free or huge cuts in college education costs in that it could be counted as "income" and the parents have to pay income tax on it (don't think it is now?). It could possibly open up players to get sued by a college if their scholarship is considered as pay if they don't go to class or they quit or get "terminated" from the team with the school asking for the money or cost to be paid back because the player (or employee) committed fraud by not performing in the classroom. Not sure about any of this, just wondering.
 
#5,157
#5,157
OldVol49vfl said:
I'm not an attorney but wouldn't the Court ruling concerning the Northwestern football team being allowed to unionize because it considered them to be "employees" of the university not open up the players and anyone else on a scholarship with school costs and/or board paid for to be liable to pay income tax on the value of the scholarship?
If the Court "makes" them employees with this ruling then the scholarship and board cost would have to be their pay. This could also have an effect on parents that work in a State job that gets free or huge cuts in college education costs in that it could be counted as "income" and the parents have to pay income tax on it (don't think it is now?). It could possibly open up players to get sued by a college if their scholarship is considered as pay if they don't go to class or they quit or get "terminated" from the team with the school asking for the money or cost to be paid back because the player (or employee) committed fraud by not performing in the classroom. Not sure about any of this, just wondering.
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National Labor Relations Board rules in favor of Northwestern football players attempting to unionize | Campus Union - SI.com

That's a good article on the topic I've read. The decision only relates to northwestern and is being appealed. Further, for public universities, students would be subject to local state law and in "right to work" states it will be harder for them to unionize. In short, there's a while yet to go before this fully plays out. My guess is if more players unionize and that is legally upheld, universities will pair down at least some of their sports offerings because it will get too expensive. Maybe the NFL will be motivated to create a minor league system, sucking good players from the college ranks.

Who knows. My guess is college football (and football in general for this and many other reasons) will look nothing like it does today in about 20-25 years. Enjoy the status quo while it lasts....
 
#5,158
#5,158
OldVol49vfl said:
I'm not an attorney but wouldn't the Court ruling concerning the Northwestern football team being allowed to unionize because it considered them to be "employees" of the university not open up the players and anyone else on a scholarship with school costs and/or board paid for to be liable to pay income tax on the value of the scholarship?
If the Court "makes" them employees with this ruling then the scholarship and board cost would have to be their pay. This could also have an effect on parents that work in a State job that gets free or huge cuts in college education costs in that it could be counted as "income" and the parents have to pay income tax on it (don't think it is now?). It could possibly open up players to get sued by a college if their scholarship is considered as pay if they don't go to class or they quit or get "terminated" from the team with the school asking for the money or cost to be paid back because the player (or employee) committed fraud by not performing in the classroom. Not sure about any of this, just wondering.
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This very thing was discussed on Mike and Mike this morning with ESPN's legal analyst. I am an attorney but don't specialize in employment or tax law. The tax code is voluminous, and I don't care to know all about it.

However, the analyst said that a scholarship is termed a "grant in aid," which is a grant that is not taxable under the code. He said that the NW players are basically asking to be unionized as employees who aren't paid so that they can benefit from other things- medical care, etc. He said that the tax code would have be changed by Congress or a regulation by the IRS. It is basically a situation where the players want their cake and eat it, too.

But, this still has a long way to go. It gets appealed to the National Board and then can get appealed the United States Court of Appeals.
 
#5,159
#5,159
vol2002 said:
National Labor Relations Board rules in favor of Northwestern football players attempting to unionize | Campus Union - SI.com

That's a good article on the topic I've read. The decision only relates to northwestern and is being appealed. Further, for public universities, students would be subject to local state law and in "right to work" states it will be harder for them to unionize. In short, there's a while yet to go before this fully plays out. My guess is if more players unionize and that is legally upheld, universities will pair down at least some of their sports offerings because it will get too expensive. Maybe the NFL will be motivated to create a minor league system, sucking good players from the college ranks.

Who knows. My guess is college football (and football in general for this and many other reasons) will look nothing like it does today in about 20-25 years. Enjoy the status quo while it lasts....
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Remember reading similar opinions when that bleeding heart judge made the FIRST decision in the Maurice Clarrett case....how long since that Apocalypse? :eek:hmy:
 
#5,160
#5,160
govols09 said:
I doubt we see Downs take significant snaps again. Saulsberry is a good one. He was having a great year until he got hurt
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That could very well be true, but he does have more experience than any of the other guys. I was just trying to think of the next Palardy.

I guess I'm taking "overlooked" to the extreme. Worley would fit that bill, but there are still quite a few who figure him as the QB to beat since, again, he has the most experience.

If we're looking for overlooked players, it's hard to beat Woody Quinn as evidenced by the past few days. :)
 
#5,161
#5,161
WriterVol said:
That could very well be true, but he does have more experience than any of the other guys. I was just trying to think of the next Palardy.

I guess I'm taking "overlooked" to the extreme. Worley would fit that bill, but there are still quite a few who figure him as the QB to beat since, again, he has the most experience.

If we're looking for overlooked players, it's hard to beat Woody Quinn as evidenced by the past few days. :)
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yeah but they have to be able to contribute to the football team - not the beach volleyball team - seriously writervol were you not even in here the other day?
 
#5,162
#5,162
VolGee4 said:
This very thing was discussed on Mike and Mike this morning with ESPN's legal analyst. It is basically a situation where the players want their cake and eat it, too.
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I don't know that i would classify wanting a university that makes millions off of athletics to cover medical bills for the athletes that get injured in the process of making those millions wanting cake and eating it too

some of these players that get really injured playing football are going to be encountering very high medical bills the rest of their lives - don't think its unreasonable to try and get the universities to cover that
 
#5,163
#5,163
OldVol49vfl said:
I'm not an attorney but wouldn't the Court ruling concerning the Northwestern football team being allowed to unionize because it considered them to be "employees" of the university not open up the players and anyone else on a scholarship with school costs and/or board paid for to be liable to pay income tax on the value of the scholarship?
If the Court "makes" them employees with this ruling then the scholarship and board cost would have to be their pay. This could also have an effect on parents that work in a State job that gets free or huge cuts in college education costs in that it could be counted as "income" and the parents have to pay income tax on it (don't think it is now?). It could possibly open up players to get sued by a college if their scholarship is considered as pay if they don't go to class or they quit or get "terminated" from the team with the school asking for the money or cost to be paid back because the player (or employee) committed fraud by not performing in the classroom. Not sure about any of this, just wondering.
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Wasn't an official court that the IRS follows, just a labor board. But yes, if they do get recognized they'll have to pay taxes. Obviously the compensation would need to negate that.

As for fraud, no employee has to pay back compensation for poor performance, they just get fired and lose future compensation.

The biggest implication is how title IX would play into it, since you have to compensate female student athletes equally. It could pretty much eliminate all student athletes and only the revenue generating sports would be paid "employees." Smaller schools especially couldn't afford to pay players and still fund women's rowing. I think it's fair to pay students who generate massive amounts of money, but that doesn't mean it won't have some nasty consequences, especially because title IX would eagerly cut off its nose to spite it's face.
 
#5,164
#5,164
SCvol333 said:
I don't know that i would classify wanting a university that makes millions off of athletics to cover medical bills for the athletes that get injured in the process of making those millions wanting cake and eating it too

some of these players that get really injured playing football are going to be encountering very high medical bills the rest of their lives - don't think its unreasonable to try and get the universities to cover that
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Ya, the players are not in any way asking for too much. There's no reason they shouldn't be compensated for an activity that generates billions for someone else.

I'd love to see a minor league system that partners with colleges but is separate enough that title IX doesn't come into play. Flat salaries for everyone, still get free rides to college with academic performance requirements, even keep University team names, but the minor league entity makes all the money and in turn pays University ADs money to fund other sports. Everyone is happy, except the NCAA, which shrinks by about 90%.
 
#5,172
#5,172
jave36 said:
Ya, the players are not in any way asking for too much. There's no reason they shouldn't be compensated for an activity that generates billions for someone else.

I'd love to see a minor league system that partners with colleges but is separate enough that title IX doesn't come into play. Flat salaries for everyone, still get free rides to college with academic performance requirements, even keep University team names, but the minor league entity makes all the money and in turn pays University ADs money to fund other sports. Everyone is happy, except the NCAA, which shrinks by about 90%.
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Ahh, another NCAA, sounds perfect.
 
#5,174
#5,174
butchna said:
Remember reading similar opinions when that bleeding heart judge made the FIRST decision in the Maurice Clarrett case....how long since that Apocalypse? :eek:hmy:
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Bleeding hearts cause a lot of problems. Been in the northeast since last Thursday (NYC and Philly). Yikes. So so so thankful I live in the South. Fun to visit up here. But could NOT live up here
 
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