WWII buffs

#27
#27
IPorange said:
I am a bit of a buff, particularly of WWII submarine warfare.

When I was a kid and we lived in England, I found a machine gun shell on the beach from 1944. I treasure it to this day.
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I had a small bomb from WWII that we recovered while skin diving in the Adriatic off the coast of southern Italy.

There was an island about a half mile out that was still off limits in the '60s and probably still is because of unexploded ordinance, from small stuff all the way up to torpedoes.

Unfortunately my bomb shell disappeared, I suppose someone wanted it more that me.

When we found it in the mid '60s, the main part had rusted out on one side but the fuse was still hot. Some guys tried to unscrew it and it started spewing smoke and as we hid behind the rocks it went off and the fuse which was about an inch or more across blew out and went zinging out to sea for about 200 yards.

One of my favorite s TV shows when I was a kid was "Run Silent, Run Deep", it was about US sub stories from the Pacific theater, based on real actions.

Fine Vol said:
WOW thats something else. I hear in Germany it is not smart to even talk about that war, is there any truth to that?
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Forty years ago it wasn't something you mentioned in public in Germany unless you wanted to get in a fist fight.

And someone mentioned regional antagonisms, the French and the Dutch both hated the Belgians when I was there and I have a Norwegian friend who still calls the Swedes sissies, because they didn't put up much resistance to the nazis.

KB5252 said:
Russian involvement certainly sped up the end for the Germans. Had the Russians not been involved the outcome would still have ended in German defeat it would have taken at least twice as long and cost us much more in lives and military resources. Nazi Germany had overextended themselves, I think they hoped that America, Great Britain, etc would find the war too costly.
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And the Russians would have been toast except for American know how that helped them manufacture arms, ammunition and fighting vehicles.

And don't forget, Hitler and Stalin, heads of the two socialist states, agreeing to partition Poland was the last straw as far as a possible peace was concerned.

The important political lesson is that the appeasement of tyrants is not the answer.
 
#28
#28
Fine Vol said:
It is scary how one man could start all that mess and how people jumped on board.
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The Prussians / Germans as a people had been ready for one incredibly sadistic and evil leader to push them over the edge for generations.

Also, the atrocities committed against European Jews were simply larger in scale. Mass violence, and the extermination of Jewish settlements, was nothing new in Europe.
 
#30
#30
therealUT said:
The Prussians / Germans as a people had been ready for one incredibly sadistic and evil leader to push them over the edge for generations.

Also, the atrocities committed against European Jews were simply larger in scale. Mass violence, and the extermination of Jewish settlements, was nothing new in Europe.
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I think the real Prussian tribe was extinct by then but others had taken on their name.

The Treaty of Versailles to end WWI made another war inevitable.
 
#31
#31
KB5252 said:
Russian involvement certainly sped up the end for the Germans. Had the Russians not been involved the outcome would still have ended in German defeat it would have taken at least twice as long and cost us much more in lives and military resources. Nazi Germany had overextended themselves, I think they hoped that America, Great Britain, etc would find the war too costly.
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The x factor in that theory is the French. While history has been rewritten a bit in their favor, they were pretty complicit with being occupied and absorbed into the German Empire for a couple years aside from the French resistance (which has been greatly embellished as the national identity of the time, when it was in fact a minority). The added manpower plus the several technological breakthroughs Germany was on the brink of could have grinded things to a stalemate. Maybe. But you are probably right.
 
#32
#32
therealUT said:
The Prussians / Germans as a people had been ready for one incredibly sadistic and evil leader to push them over the edge for generations.

Also, the atrocities committed against European Jews were simply larger in scale. Mass violence, and the extermination of Jewish settlements, was nothing new in Europe.
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Very true. It was a big part of medieval culture throughout Europe.
 
#33
#33
IPorange said:
The x factor in that theory is the French. While history has been rewritten a bit in their favor, they were pretty complicit with being occupied and absorbed into the German Empire for a couple years aside from the French resistance (which has been greatly embellished as the national identity of the time, when it was in fact a minority). The added manpower plus the several technological breakthroughs Germany was on the brink of could have grinded things to a stalemate. Maybe. But you are probably right.
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Germany had breakthrough technology you are correct. The problem was they used up too many resources an archaic ideas that would serve little if any use on the battlefield. Had they concentrated their efforts on those that would have helped during the war I believe the outcome could possibly have become a stalemate, but I give a slight nod to the American and British being able to outproduce them, our coordination in that respect gave us great advantage even when Nazi Germany had better technology and equipment in many cases.
 
#34
#34
Plus we were able to bomb their factories, while America's were far out of reach. So in that sense I suppose a stalemate was impossible.
 
#35
#35
IPorange said:
Plus we were able to bomb their factories, while America's were far out of reach. So in that sense I suppose a stalemate was impossible.
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It took us a while to gain air superiority. Their fighters gave us fits in the beginning IIRC. We did have the advantage of numbers though. I'm not positive but I think it was closer to the end of the war when we were able to strike their production facilities with great success.
 
#36
#36
like most ppl on here i'm sure your grandfather, great grandfather or w/e served during WWII. my granddad fought in Korea, and great grandfather fought in WWII. fascinated by all of it. D.C.'s Korean War memorial is by far the freakiest and most unique memorial there. Anyways my great grandfather had pics of when he was over there. I've seen them and when he was still alive he would tell stories of what went on over there. His platoon caught several Japs. Said for the most part they had no trouble with them, and actually they all played cards together, but they knew if they ran they would be shot. He said they had to make an example of one that took off.
 
#37
#37
My great uncle commented on how tiny the average Japanese soldier was. They were often about half a foot shorter and forty pounds lighter than the Americans, or so he recalled. Of course, this was perhaps towards the end of the war when they were sending out younger soldiers and rationing was tighter.
 
#38
#38
IPorange said:
In the beginning of the war the German army was loaded for bear and more ready than any other on Earth. But losses over the course of the war quickly changed that. The population of Germany and Italy was but a fraction of the United States, Britain, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

A smaller population, as well as a lack of resources due to their limited area of geographical influence doomed them in a prolonged war. Hitler knew that which is why initially the "blitzkrieg" method was used. It did work, as Fortress Europe was in place after only a couple of years. Had Russia and Germany remained at peace, it would have been a different 20th century.
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A number of events would have been significant turning points had the outcome been different. If the Luftwaffe had succeeded in neutralizing the RAF in the Battle of Britain, for example, it would have been a different 20th century.
 
#39
#39
Chemvol said:
A number of events would have been significant turning points had the outcome been different. If the Luftwaffe had succeeded in neutralizing the RAF in the Battle of Britain, for example, it would have been a different 20th century.
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Don't know how I can disagree with that. :hi:
 
#40
#40
KB5252 said:
It took us a while to gain air superiority. Their fighters gave us fits in the beginning IIRC. We did have the advantage of numbers though. I'm not positive but I think it was closer to the end of the war when we were able to strike their production facilities with great success.
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One America pilot said he owed his life to a German pilot.

The American was flying a P-40 in North Africa and got in trouble with a new model Me-109, the standard operating procedure was to do a nose dive to get the other plane off your tail.

As he was headed straight down at full throttle, the German flew alongside and gave him a salute, he said that probably saved his life as he never tried than again.

We got back 98% of our POWs from Germany, (the Russians kept a lot of those missing) but we only got back about 40% of our prisoners from Japan.

I had an uncle who served in the Marines in the south Pacific and was in on most of the landings and was involved in a lot of jungle warfare and he said as cruel as the Japanese were, and they were extremely cruel, he said he hated the muslim islanders much more.

Many of them had been taught that to take the head of a Christian would guarantee them admittance to paradise and they did just that when they could get the chance.

On the POWs, I knew a nice lady whose husband was in charge of the German POW camp at Tullahoma, one particular German Captain gave them several oil paintings he did while there, she still had them framed and in her home, they were nicely done.


IPorange said:
My great uncle commented on how tiny the average Japanese soldier was. They were often about half a foot shorter and forty pounds lighter than the Americans, or so he recalled. Of course, this was perhaps towards the end of the war when they were sending out younger soldiers and rationing was tighter.
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macarthurHirohito.jpg


The Japs would shoot up on morphine just before a banzai bayonet charge, if their legs were shot off, they would keep charging on the bloody stumps and so when you were dug in and expecting a counter attack, the thing to do was cut off the end of bullets and cut an X in the ends of them.

A full metal jacket would go right trough a man but a dum dum would cut him in half. A violation of Geneva Conventions, but who was checking.

Well, that's about all I want to talk about the realities of warfare, I just wish so many wouldn't take the sacrifices of generations before them so lightly.

They say if you don't want anyone to get your goat, don't tell them where it's tethered but nothing gets to me quicker than some young punk blaming America for all the ills of the world!!!
 
#41
#41
Fine Vol said:
WOW thats something else. I hear in Germany it is not smart to even talk about that war, is there any truth to that?
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Sir Alec Guinness made a movie in 1973, Hitler: The Last Ten Days. I saw an interview with him discussing the movie. He said when he was in costume, old German soldiers were coming out of their homes. Tears in their eyes, showing him their WWII medals. He was shocked that some of them spoke of Hitler in almost revered tones.

Sir Alec Guinness as Hitler.

SuperStock_252-211.jpg
 
#42
#42
Fine Vol said:
I have really been studying WWII, i find it fascinating. Any of you guys intrigued by that war and all of the people and countries that were involved? The SS floor me at the age of the troops and how they just did evil. I hear Hitler gave some troops PCP to get them mean and jacked up, WOW. Any of you study WWII?
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Who had the first successful guided missile?

Hint, it sunk a ship in the Med!

:p

:)
 
#44
#44
What is prevailing sentiment on the VN regarding US foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor strikes?
 
#45
#45
Lexvol said:
What is prevailing sentiment on the VN regarding US foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor strikes?
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I don't think we knew it was coming on Dec 7th, but we knew that Japan would strike given how we strangled their oil supply.
 
#47
#47
Quick, what was the largest land battle ever fought!

Shame on you for thinking it was the battle for Berlin!
 
#48
#48
OrangeEmpire said:
Quick, what was the largest land battle ever fought!

Shame on you for thinking it was the battle for Berlin!
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Wasn't it the battle of Kiev or something in Russia during WWII? It was something like over a million men engaged at one point.
 
#49
#49
As far as the US having "foreknowledge" of Pearl Harbor, I think there is a difference between what looks like "foreknowledge" in retrospect decades later, and what the information looked like prior to the attack. Context matters.
 
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