Will science destroy religion

[luthervol]

See I'd define it as participating in a belief system in order to bring purpose to your life and/or meaning/understanding of life.

I know of 2 people personally that are both self defined as "atheists ". One I consider religious the other is not.
Similarly I know people who define themselves as Christian. One religious the other not so much.

To me it's about actual actions and motivations rather than self definition.

I could define myself as an apache attack helicopter but that doesn't mean it's true

So an atheist who volunteers out of altruism is religious by your definition?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

See I'd define it as participating in a belief system in order to bring purpose to your life and/or meaning/understanding of life.

I know of 2 people personally that are both self defined as "atheists ". One I consider religious the other is not.
Similarly I know people who define themselves as Christian. One religious the other not so much.

To me it's about actual actions and motivations rather than self definition.

I could define myself as an apache attack helicopter but that doesn't mean it's true

I doubt many people share your broad definition of religion. Does you either of your self defined atheist stand a chance of achieving that divine afterlife?

 

[Orangeslice13]

So an atheist who volunteers out of altruism is religious by your definition?

If that volunteering was based is some form of atheistic moral code then yes.

My atheist buddy I consider religious studies every week in an effort to answer the question of why he is here. He was raised coc and the only thing that's changed in his behavior is the subject matter he devotes himself too.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I doubt many people share your broad definition of religion. Does you either of your self defined atheist stand a chance of achieving that divine afterlife?

That's ok
Not many Jews or christians share my views on G-d.
I'm ok being the odd man out.

I don't speak for others and what is required for them to achieve an afterlife. I leave that to each person to decide for themselves

 

[luthervol]

If that volunteering was based is some form of atheistic moral code then yes.

My atheist buddy I consider religious studies every week in an effort to answer the question of why he is here. He was raised coc and the only thing that's changed in his behavior is the subject matter he devotes himself too.

Let's say it's based purely on a personal moral code. Could one's religion be the journey to perfect self?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Let's say it's based purely on a personal moral code. Could one's religion be the journey to perfect self?

Without overthinking it....
I could live with that definition.
But I don't think that definition fits what the article intended. I think the article was more in line with a "belief in a higher power " definition

 

[zeppelin128]

Catholic????
No wouber you're so screwy.

(I'm kidding louder )

I was a doubtful,liberal Catholic in a liberal Church. Left the Church a few years ago.

I describe myself as a Buddhist atheist now. It makes sense to me, but confuses others. Lol

 

[LouderVol]

Catholic????
No wouber you're so screwy.

(I'm kidding louder )

shifty eyes

 

[LouderVol]

Even though I belong to and practice a formal religion I don't consider myself religious. I see myself driven more by my faith (relationship with God) than my religion (dogma).

I don't think science will ever effect an individual like me.

 

[Septic]

If that volunteering was based is some form of atheistic moral code then yes.

My atheist buddy I consider religious studies every week in an effort to answer the question of why he is here. He was raised coc and the only thing that's changed in his behavior is the subject matter he devotes himself too.

"atheistic moral code." :blink:

I guess that's called altruism since there's no expectation of reward. Right?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

"atheistic moral code." :blink:

I guess that's called altruism since there's no expectation of reward. Right?

Altruism does not exist.

 

[Septic]

Altruism does not exist.

You'll have to elaborate.

In this context, why else then would an atheist help others? Would you say it's simply an innate desire to help propagate and advance the species - and that is the reward?

If the religious follow gods laws to help ensure an acceptance into his 'kingdom' in the afterlife - An atheist has no such expectation. Why then would they "help" others without it being something other than - for lack of a better word, altruism?

 

[n_huffhines]

To some degree, I do agree that altruism doesn't exist. For example, I can do something that seems totally selfless, but am I actually doing it because it will make me feel good or because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

You'll have to elaborate.

In this context, why else then would an atheist help others? Would you say it's simply an innate desire to help propagate and advance the species - and that is the reward?

If the religious follow gods laws to help ensure an acceptance into his 'kingdom' in the afterlife - An atheist has no such expectation. Why then would they "help" others without it being something other than - for lack of a better word, altruism?

Altruism is not tied to a religion or consequences beyond this life. It is the belief that someone will do something that has absolutely no benefit to them. This does not exist outside of theory. You can be an atheist and help someone, believing 100% there is no future consequence to your action. But in some way it makes you feel good you have helped someone, and therefore it was not truly altruistic. Maybe a robot could commit an act of altruism, but even that would be debatable.

 

[Septic]

Altruism is not tied to a religion or consequences beyond this life. It is the belief that someone will do something that has absolutely no benefit to them. This does not exist outside of theory. You can be an atheist and help someone, believing 100% there is no future consequence to your action. But in some way it makes you feel good you have helped someone, and therefore it was not truly altruistic. Maybe a robot could commit an act of altruism, but even that would be debatable.

I see - what if the "good feeling" is a result of the action and not an expectation of the action? Is that possible?

I'm trying to unpack where the "atheistic moral code" originates from if not altruism and there's no expectation of heavenly reward.

 

[n_huffhines]

Altruism is not tied to a religion or consequences beyond this life. It is the belief that someone will do something that has absolutely no benefit to them. This does not exist outside of theory. You can be an atheist and help someone, believing 100% there is no future consequence to your action. But in some way it makes you feel good you have helped someone, and therefore it was not truly altruistic. Maybe a robot could commit an act of altruism, but even that would be debatable.

This is the point I just made, but I think when most people say something is altruistic, I think they mean there was no external benefit.

 

[Orangeslice13]

"atheistic moral code." :blink:

I guess that's called altruism since there's no expectation of reward. Right?

I'm good with whatever you choose to call it.
In fact I'll defer to you as you are an atheist. (I think)

 

[Septic]

I'm good with whatever you choose to call it.
In fact I'll defer to you as you are an atheist. (I think)

I'm agnostic. I won't discount any possibility without evidence.

Maybe you could ask your buddy why he does the things he does if he has no expectation of external reward, I'm genuinely interested in that perspective.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I'm agnostic. I won't discount any possibility without evidence.

Maybe you could ask your buddy why he does the things he does if he has no expectation of external reward, I'm genuinely interested in that perspective.

The answer he's given in the past is that society sets the rules and he lives within those rules for his own personal benefit. On a personal level I'm not sure he has an answer but I've never pressed the issue. The non religious atheist isn't very smart so I don't talk to him much on deeper issues.

I, like you, am interested in the perspective of others.
So as an agnostic how would you answer that same question

 

[luthervol]

The answer he's given in the past is that society sets the rules and he lives within those rules for his own personal benefit. On a personal level I'm not sure he has an answer but I've never pressed the issue. The non religious atheist isn't very smart so I don't talk to him much on deeper issues.

I, like you, am interested in the perspective of others.
So as an agnostic how would you answer that same question

To me it's kind of like asking someone why they are a good parent. Do they expect reward or fear punishment? Or do they do it out of some innate essence of humanity?

 

[zeppelin128]

I think it is simply about finding peace with your existence. Altruistic acts give me a sense of purpose in the Universe instead of just waiting to be decayed matter transforming into energy. Knowing I have helped or affected some one in a positive way leaves my small, insignificant contribution to humanity.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Even though I belong to and practice a formal religion I don't consider myself religious. I see myself driven more by my faith (relationship with God) than my religion (dogma).

I don't think science will ever effect an individual like me.

"God bless!"

 

[Madscientistvol]

To me it's kind of like asking someone why they are a good parent. Do they expect reward or fear punishment? Or do they do it out of some innate essence of humanity?

From a biological perspective, being a "good" parent is maximizing your child's ability to flourish and continue to pass down your genetic legacy. This isn't "humanity" it's biological. Insects even do this.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

I see - what if the "good feeling" is a result of the action and not an expectation of the action? Is that possible?

I'm trying to unpack where the "atheistic moral code" originates from if not altruism and there's no expectation of heavenly reward.

Most atheists believe being good is itself the reward. That morally we are obligated as humans to be good to each other.

 

[luthervol]

From a biological perspective, being a "good" parent is maximizing your child's ability to flourish and continue to pass down your genetic legacy. This isn't "humanity" it's biological. Insects even do this.

Then ask an adoptive parent.