Will an American President Ever Apologize for the Atomic Bombings of Japan?

Was Truman's decision to use the atomic bomb right?

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#52
#52
carlos86 said:
Japan had to be forced to surrender because they still occupied Korea, China and most of Southeast Asia.
On July 26, 1945 the Allied powers issued an ultimatum to to the Japanese demanding its unconditional surrender and outlining the terms of surrender which were:

  • the elimination "for all time of the authority and influence of those who have deceived and misled the people of Japan into embarking on world conquest"
  • the occupation of "points in Japanese territory to be designated by the Allies"
  • that the "Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku, and such minor islands as we determine," as had been announced in the Cairo Declaration in 1943.
  • that "the Japanese military forces, after being completely disarmed, shall be permitted to return to their homes with the opportunity to lead peaceful and productive lives."
  • that "we do not intend that the Japanese shall be enslaved as a race or destroyed as a nation, but stern justice shall be meted out to all war criminals, including those who have visited cruelties upon our prisoners."
  • On the other hand, the declaration offered that:
  • "The Japanese Government shall remove all obstacles to the revival and strengthening of democratic tendencies among the Japanese people. Freedom of speech, of religion, and of thought, as well as respect for the fundamental human rights shall be established."
  • "Japan shall be permitted to maintain such industries as will sustain her economy and permit the exaction of just reparations in kind, but not those which would enable her to rearm for war. To this end, access to, as distinguished from control of, raw materials shall be permitted. Eventual Japanese participation in world trade relations shall be permitted."
  • "The occupying forces of the Allies shall be withdrawn from Japan as soon as these objectives have been accomplished and there has been established, in accordance with the freely expressed will of the Japanese people, a peacefully inclined and responsible government."
  • "We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction"
The Japanese response was what is called Mokusatsu meaning "to ignore"

Operation Downfall, Allied plan for the invasion of Japan was to take place in November of 1945. The atomic bombs were dropped in August of 1945. Before the dropping of the atomic bombs Japan had showed that they had every intention of fighting tot the last man woman and child. They conscripted 35 million civilians and had the parts of their military that had survived the early parts of the war.
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Some historians opine that demanding unconditional surrender emboldened the Japanese to fight so hard. Had the allies asked for more modest demands, they may have avoided a lot of blood shed.
 
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#53
#53
n_huffhines said:
Many historians opine that demanding unconditional surrender emboldened the Japanese to fight so hard. Had the allies asked for more modest demands, they may have avoided a lot of blood shed.
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They started it they couldn't finish it so they either took the surrender conditions or get destroyed. They choose destruction so **** them we owe them ****.
 
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#56
#56
hog88 said:
Dude unless they are Japanese why the **** would Asians want us to apologize to the people who essentially conquered and raped them?
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I guess I should have said Japanese.. Didn't think I had to but I guess I did.. my bad.
 
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#58
#58
n_huffhines said:
Some historians opine that demanding unconditional surrender emboldened the Japanese to fight so hard. Had the allies asked for more modest demands, they may have avoided a lot of blood shed.
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Japan no intention of accepting defeat. They thought they could fight the Allies to an armistice rather than total surrender. The Allies were not going to accept anything less than unconditional surrender. especially after Japan had raped and pillaged their way through Asia, attacked Pearl Harbour, and been in bed with the Nazi's.
 
#59
#59
hog88 said:
They started it they couldn't finish it so they either took the surrender conditions or get destroyed. They choose destruction so **** them we owe them ****.
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It's not always about who deserves what, it's about getting the best result.
 
#60
#60
hog88 said:
Why wouldn't you think you needed to? You obviously think Asians are all the same.
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If the subject was about different countries in southeast Asia then yeah.. but since Japan is the only thing being talked about I didn't think I had to but I see your point.
 
#61
#61
carlos86 said:
Japan no intention of accepting defeat. They thought they could fight the Allies to an armistice rather than total surrender. The Allies were not going to accept anything less than unconditional surrender. especially after Japan had raped and pillaged their way through Asia, attacked Pearl Harbour, and been in bed with the Nazi's.
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Yes, and i'm saying that's hard headed diplomacy.

What is unconditional surrender worth? 50k lives? 100k lives? 500k?

There is a cost. What is it worth to you?
 
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#62
#62
During 1945, and especially after Germany was defeated, Japan made many overtures looking for a path to surrender. Japan did this directly to the U.S., and also through various other diplomatic channels. Additionally, the U.S., due to interception of Japanese transmissions, understood well the situation and desires of the Japanese government and Emperor.

An end of the war was desired. Japan’s primary (and substantially only) concern was with the continued insistence by the Americans of the idea of “unconditional surrender.” To Japan, this meant risking the life and government of the Emperor – a possibility that was beyond consideration. Japan seemed quite prepared for a complete surrender of all military activity and assets, but as the Emperor was in a manner considered a “god”, the idea of his embarrassment and dethroning – let alone the risk of standing for war crimes – was unthinkable.

Further, most U.S. military leaders made quite clear to the political leaders that the best hope for a surrender of Japanese military forces was for those forces to get the word from the Emperor – in other words, the maintenance of the Emperor was a necessity if there was to be hope of avoiding a devastating and continuing fight to the finish with Japan.

The political leaders, primarily Roosevelt, continually insisted on the term, whereas the military leaders saw the cost this condition would have on the battlefield. So much for allowing military leaders the room to fight the war.
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https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/04/bionic-mosquito/roosevelt-demands-unconditionalsurrender/
 
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#63
#63
n_huffhines said:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/04/bionic-mosquito/roosevelt-demands-unconditionalsurrender/
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Roosevelt was dead when the Potsdam Declaration was written. The term "unconditional surrender" was signed off by Truman, Stalin, Churchill and Allied Chiefs of Staff. Also their was no way Japan was going to accept the declaration knowing that many of its leaders (Tojo and others) would be tried for war crimes. That's another reason they wanted to fight to the end.

the Potsdam Declaration of 1945, issued by the United States, Great Britain, and China (and later adhered to by the Soviet Union), addressed the issue of punishing war crimes committed by the German and Japanese governments, respectively.
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#64
#64
n_huffhines said:
Serious question, but why did we need to invade Japan to win? Hadn't we won enough of the Pacific that we had the upper hand? Couldn't we just sit on what had taken and fortified it. Make them bring the battle to us. Invasion is suicide.

In other words...if there was no A-bomb, would the only choice be to invade Japan?
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I take it you are not very familiar with Japanese culture or people.

They wouldn't have surrendered without the bombings.
 
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#65
#65
“True defeat and surrender are two different things,”

“Surrender is a political decision, requiring political will.”

Even after the bombs and the Soviet invasion, some of Japan’s hawks weren’t ready to stop fighting, according to some historians.Gen. Korechika Anami, Japan’s minister of war, called for conditions that the world wouldn’t have recognized as surrender.

Anami wanted retention of the emperor, self-disarmament, no foreign occupation, and trial of any Japanese war criminals by Japan itself,
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#67
#67
n_huffhines said:
Yes, and i'm saying that's hard headed diplomacy.

What is unconditional surrender worth? 50k lives? 100k lives? 500k?

There is a cost. What is it worth to you?
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Huff, if I just out of the blue punched you in the mouth and you whipped my ass for it would you owe me an apology?
 
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#69
#69
The genie wasn't going back in the bottle... Someone was going to get nuked, the only question was "who?"
 
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#70
#70
Don't start no mess, won't be no mess... America probably.

No Ragrets.
 
#72
#72
carlos86 said:
Roosevelt was dead when the Potsdam Declaration was written. The term "unconditional surrender" was signed off by Truman, Stalin, Churchill and Allied Chiefs of Staff. Also their was no way Japan was going to accept the declaration knowing that many of its leaders (Tojo and others) would be tried for war crimes. That's another reason they wanted to fight to the end.
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Roosevelt was the one who originally said it. What difference does it make how many idiots signed off on it?
 
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#75
#75
hog88 said:
Huff, if I just out of the blue punched you in the mouth and you whipped my ass for it would you owe me an apology?
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WTF, I don't care about an apology. What are you talking about? Read and meditate before arguing with me. You do this all the time.
 
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