Welcome Assistants!! (OFFICIALLY)

[glv98]

Ah, so tokenism back in vogue

Nah. There's a significant difference btw representation and tokenism. But painting in dramatic broad brush strokes is alot easier.

 

[creekdipper]

Nah. There's a significant difference btw representation and tokenism. But painting in dramatic broad brush strokes is alot easier.

Seems to be a distinction without a difference, but perhaps there's a persuasive explanation forthcoming.

 

[Majors]

This is a different time, representation matters...

That’s true. Pat coached in a time when parents turned their kids over for 4 years to grow, develop as people, get an education/degree and make an impact on society once they leave college. What changed? Everything is still the same except the NIL aspect. Parents priorities changed.

 

[RockyTopppppppp]

How would you know?

Young assistant coaching hires are going to be an impossible thing to gauge. How do you quantify them with anything meaningfully tangible? These people are early into their careers. If you want to say "unproven," that is true .... just like with Caldwell, we are in a wait and see stage.

So now Tennessee is a program to give young assistants a chance to prove themselves? In this case, nearly an entire staff. You’re accepting mediocrity and that’s what we are going to get with these hires. Just watch the in state talent keep going out of state as was the case with the last staff.

 

[glv98]

So now Tennessee is a program to give young assistants a chance to prove themselves? In this case, nearly an entire staff. You’re accepting mediocrity and that’s what we are going to get with these hires. Just watch the in state talent keep going out of state as was the case with the last staff.

My God are we really going to keep doing the "accept mediocrity" debate. First (and foremost), no one cares what we "accept" on a message board. Second, we just hired a promising but inexperienced head coach after every "top tier" coach turned us down, apparently most not even accepting an interview. The AD just called the current program good but not great. Thus the coaching change.

"Mediocrity" is a loaded term. But do people really still wonder where the program stands?

I'm delighted with the new assistants, and it appears to be paying off in the portal immediately. And I am/was a CKC skeptic.

 

[ReignSupreme]

My God are we really going to keep doing the "accept mediocrity" debate. First (and foremost), no one cares what we "accept" on a message board. Second, we just hired a promising but inexperienced head coach after every "top tier" coach turned us down, apparently most not even accepting an interview. The AD just called the current program good but not great. Thus the coaching change.

"Mediocrity" is a loaded term. But do people really still wonder where the program stands?

I'm delighted with the new assistants, and it appears to be paying off in the portal immediately. And I am/was a CKC skeptic.

But the jury is still out if this was the best promising but inexperienced head coach we could've went after?

I would've preferred a coach who has experience playing a schedule that often included her scheduling P5's and having her team compete with them in the tournament for years instead of one 2 years removed from Division II and her first year making the tournament.

Give me the coach who has just had 2 Post players drafted to the W over the coach trying to learn the Power 5.

Did Danny go after the best for the job after being turned down by others, I'd love to know the other names he went after besides the names we already were told but haven't been confirmed.

 

[BowlBrother85]

So now Tennessee is a program to give young assistants a chance to prove themselves? In this case, nearly an entire staff. You’re accepting mediocrity and that’s what we are going to get with these hires. Just watch the in state talent keep going out of state as was the case with the last staff.

That is such a ridiculous inference.

I'm not accepting anything. Unlike yourself, I'm going to wait until we have some results on the recruiting front, and on the court before passing judgment on the new staff. You are assuming the worst, whereas, I'm going to keep an open mind.

You have no clue what's going to happen .... neither does anyone else.

 

[creekdipper]

That is such a ridiculous inference.

I'm not accepting anything. Unlike yourself, I'm going to wait until we have some results on the recruiting front, and on the court before passing judgment on the new staff. You are assuming the worst, whereas, I'm going to keep an open mind.

You have no clue what's going to happen .... neither does anyone else.

We're all lost in Limbo Land...perpetually planted in Portal Purgatory!

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

We're all lost in Limbo Land...perpetually planted in Portal Purgatory!

Not all are lost. Some posters seem to have an ability to predict the future. Amazing.

 

[butchna]

It is more moderate and reasonable not to invent all sorts of thoughts and aims for people.

Right?

 

[BruisedOrange]

man I can't keep up with the posts,,,no way
IMA have to pick two threads and stay with them

So much happening behind the scenes...I feel like a termite in a yoyo

Been wanting to ask you...

What do you see from CKC's previous teams about how they approach half-court offense (when they have to resort to that)? First open shooter pulls the trigger, but what did they use to create open shooters when transition did not produce one?

Did she have/prefer/utilize girls who could create their own shot? Did they use screens to create shots? ...relay or skip passes?

The harder, maybe prophetic question is, how much of what her teams did (in half-court offense) was due to personnel limitations rather than core philosophy?

Was she getting undersized girls with high basketball IQs to which she could entrust several minutes of play, or was she taking high commitment girls with physical quickness and shooting skill who could be taught to play specific roles within the system?

Thanks for responding, if and when you deem it safe to reenter this suddenly way-too-volatile forum.
I'm looking forward to the next 3 years. For me, the joy of watching sports is the journey to the top, and watching people (both players and coaches) develop toward their potential.

 

[DeerPark12]

Good faith to me sounds like applying wherever she pleases D1-D-2 whatever and asking for the same compensation as she was making at Tennessee. You can figure nobody's going to pay that and she can take the next 4 years off paid a cool half million a year by UT. Thats one way to go about it, still get paid and take a nice long vacation.

In today's world, the longer you're out, the less chance you have to get the next job.

 

[DeerPark12]

So now Tennessee is a program to give young assistants a chance to prove themselves? In this case, nearly an entire staff. You’re accepting mediocrity and that’s what we are going to get with these hires. Just watch the in state talent keep going out of state as was the case with the last staff.

What would you have done?

 

[madtownvol]

Seems to be a distinction without a difference, but perhaps there's a persuasive explanation forthcoming.

You May not find this persuasive but tokenism is about the interests of the dominant group. See, we have one of these minority types working here so everyone can feel good about us or we ain't racist despite what everyone says...

Representation is linked to the idea of inclusion and has more to do with the interests of the minority group so that they do not feel like interlopers or as though an organization does not value their personal and cultural worth. i.e., sure you want us as a customer but you don't have anyone like us in a management position. Tokenism is satisfied with just having "one of em', whereas representation marks a broader shift in the organizational culture. This has been the same battle women have been fighting in corporate America for decades.

 

[Majors]

But the jury is still out if this was the best promising but inexperienced head coach we could've went after?

I would've preferred a coach who has experience playing a schedule that often included her scheduling P5's and having her team compete with them in the tournament for years instead of one 2 years removed from Division II and her first year making the tournament.

Give me the coach who has just had 2 Post players drafted to the W over the coach trying to learn the Power 5.

Did Danny go after the best for the job after being turned down by others, I'd love to know the other names he went after besides the names we already were told but haven't been confirmed.

A lot of “I”, “give me” and “I’d” on something you’re not involved in.

 

[madtownvol]

So now Tennessee is a program to give young assistants a chance to prove themselves? In this case, nearly an entire staff. You’re accepting mediocrity and that’s what we are going to get with these hires. Just watch the in state talent keep going out of state as was the case with the last staff.

When White opted to go with a young, up and comer coach, he is betting on future potential. Tubner and Lazo are not that inexperienced and it seems that CKC wants younger talent around her as well.

The "accepting mediocrity" card just does not fit this situation. But, if you have a real beef with it, take it up with Danny White. Nothing that happens on this board will much impact on anything.

 

[creekdipper]

You May not find this persuasive but tokenism is about the interests of the dominant group. See, we have one of these minority types working here so everyone can feel good about us or we ain't racist despite what everyone says...

Representation is linked to the idea of inclusion and has more to do with the interests of the minority group so that they do not feel like interlopers or as though an organization does not value their personal and cultural worth. i.e., sure you want us as a customer but you don't have anyone like us in a management position. Tokenism is satisfied with just having "one of em', whereas representation marks a broader shift in the organizational culture. This has been the same battle women have been fighting in corporate America for decades.

Thanks for taking the time and putting the effort into your post. It is far clearer and more coherent than the online links from "experts" who buried their attempts under buzzwords and jargon that ultimately just muddied the waters.

The problem I have is the reliance upon "cultural" differences as though skin tone determines "culture" as opposed to geography, familial associations, individual tastes, and other factors. There are common ancestral backgrounds among similar ethnic groups, but those are diluted by living in different regions with different recreation, history, foods, accents, etc. When I read various discussions comparing tokenism to representation, invariably one example of the latter mentioned is "someone who looks like me." That strongly implies stereotyping based solely upon looks (in many cases). If you ask someone to describe "___ culture," they seem to quickly realize how stereotypical their lists are sounding, and they quickly reverse course and back off. I would think gender would be far more important in terms of relating to universal experiences, particularly in the physical realm.

Try this experiment. Pick a race (any race) and then describe what you think is that race's "culture" (music, art, clothing, hairstyles, customs, language, religion, etc.), and then ask yourself how your list makes you sound.

I would think that a much sounder argument for "representation" would be the racial demographics of the players involved in the sport along with gender considerations (as a male who coached three female sports for over a decade).

 

[1reVOLver]

But the jury is still out if this was the best promising but inexperienced head coach we could've went after?

“[…] we could've went after?”
Inexperienced at English, are we?

The jury is, and forever will be, out. There is no control group for your non-randomized experiment. If the current coach enjoys, as most of us hope she will, great success, that won't prove there wasn't a better potential candidate. If she doesn't, that will not show that some other nameless person might have done any better.

You are just whining because (1) you didn't get whatever you wanted, and/or, (2) The AD was wise enough not to ask for your opinion or permission.

 

[ReignSupreme]

“[…] we could've went after?”
Inexperienced at English, are we?

The jury is, and forever will be, out. There is no control group for your non-randomized experiment. If the current coach enjoys, as most of us hope she will, great success, that won't prove there wasn't a better potential candidate. If she doesn't, that will not show that some other nameless person might have done any better.

You are just whining because (1) you didn't get whatever you wanted, and/or, (2) The AD was wise enough not to ask for your opinion or permission.

If that's what you call it!

Clearly the AD didn't ask any opinions and that's fine just hope he made the right choice!

And regardless of what you or anyone else says around here, I'll still say Tomekia Reed would've been a better hire if given the same level of support than Caldwell whether you or anybody want to believe it or not.

 

[volbeast33]

If that's what you call it!

Clearly the AD didn't ask any opinions and that's fine just hope he made the right choice!

And regardless of what you or anyone else says around here, I'll still say Tomekia Reed would've been a better hire if given the same level of support than Caldwell whether you or anybody want to believe it or not.

Why do you think Reed would be better?

 

[madtownvol]

Thanks for taking the time and putting the effort into your post. It is far clearer and more coherent than the online links from "experts" who buried their attempts under buzzwords and jargon that ultimately just muddied the waters.

The problem I have is the reliance upon "cultural" differences as though skin tone determines "culture" as opposed to geography, familial associations, individual tastes, and other factors. There are common ancestral backgrounds among similar ethnic groups, but those are diluted by living in different regions with different recreation, history, foods, accents, etc. When I read various discussions comparing tokenism to representation, invariably one example of the latter mentioned is "someone who looks like me." That strongly implies stereotyping based solely upon looks (in many cases). If you ask someone to describe "___ culture," they seem to quickly realize how stereotypical their lists are sounding, and they quickly reverse course and back off. I would think gender would be far more important in terms of relating to universal experiences, particularly in the physical realm.

Try this experiment. Pick a race (any race) and then describe what you think is that race's "culture" (music, art, clothing, hairstyles, customs, language, religion, etc.), and then ask yourself how your list makes you sound.

I would think that a much sounder argument for "representation" would be the racial demographics of the players involved in the sport along with gender considerations (as a male who coached three female sports for over a decade).

Creek, there is a good academic buzzword that corresponds to your post---"intersectionality." Example, a 20 something, upper middle class black male lives in an entirely different cultural world than a middle-aged, working class, black women. Identity is a complicated phenomenon.

I never take the "someone who looks like me" too literally,. It is a shorthand and now cliche reference to a more involved idea.

While broad categories like man, woman, black, white, "Asian" are all oversimplifications there is a simple and direct message when an organization is noticeably lacking in one of those categories. This cartoon can be extrapolated to any of the social categories that are usually referenced in the diversity and inclusion debates>

 

[Majors]

If that's what you call it!

Clearly the AD didn't ask any opinions and that's fine just hope he made the right choice!

And regardless of what you or anyone else says around here, I'll still say Tomekia Reed would've been a better hire if given the same level of support than Caldwell whether you or anybody want to believe it or not.

Seems college basketball disagrees this year, as Tomekia Reed hasn’t relocated to a bigger destination.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

If that's what you call it!

Clearly the AD didn't ask any opinions and that's fine just hope he made the right choice!

And regardless of what you or anyone else says around here, I'll still say Tomekia Reed would've been a better hire if given the same level of support than Caldwell whether you or anybody want to believe it or not.

Please inform us how you know this. In fact he said he did get opinions. The first one from the players themselves and your as totally delusional as your post make you seem to be if you think DW does not have people he trusts that he confides in on coaches. I can see why he would not confide in you. No one would.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

“[…] we could've went after?”
Inexperienced at English, are we?

The jury is, and forever will be, out. There is no control group for your non-randomized experiment. If the current coach enjoys, as most of us hope she will, great success, that won't prove there wasn't a better potential candidate. If she doesn't, that will not show that some other nameless person might have done any better.

You are just whining because (1) you didn't get whatever you wanted, and/or, (2) The AD was wise enough not to ask for your opinion or permission.

Sad, but his English appears to be better than his basketball IQ.

 

[dazzleme]

Seems college basketball disagrees this year, as Tomekia Reed hasn’t relocated to a bigger destination.

Majors, I do love your matter of fact takedowns.