War in Ukraine

#78,351
#78,351
Orangeburst said:
That isnt his job..he needs to inspire his own citizenry as this isnt our fight.
We will see how you feel if we send them.

www.politico.eu

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage

An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
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LOL America did the same thing from 1776-1779 or so begging France, Spain, and others to fight UK. Not saying we should help Ukraine but can understand Zelensky pushing for it.
 
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#78,352
#78,352
Rasputin_Vol said:
He's already been crying for them indirectly, but I think it is 50/50 on "NATO" getting involved. I don't think some countries have the appetite for it. But what you will likely see is a move by individual countries (Poland, France, The Baltic States... Romania. But it likely won't be "⁸NATO".
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No NATO country is going to jump into this war. They may send more aid but that is about it.
 
#78,354
#78,354
Orangeburst said:
That isnt his job..he needs to inspire his own citizenry as this isnt our fight.
We will see how you feel if we send them.

www.politico.eu

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage

An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
Click to expand...
He should just ask we give him some nukes since Russia broke their agreement. I'm good with that. Just a few. Probably cheaper in the long run. Maybe throw in a few virigna class subs. We would save tons and Putin would tuck his tail.
 
#78,355
#78,355
volfanhill said:
He should just ask we give him some nukes since Russia broke their agreement. I'm good with that. Just a few. Probably cheaper in the long run. Maybe throw in a few virigna class subs. We would save tons and Putin would tuck his tail.
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What would you nuke?
 
#78,365
#78,365
Orangeburst said:
That isnt his job..he needs to inspire his own citizenry as this isnt our fight.
We will see how you feel if we send them.

www.politico.eu

Draft-dodging plagues Ukraine as Kyiv faces acute soldier shortage

An early burst of patriotic fervor saw draft centers swamped with volunteers, but that has waned with Vladimir Putin’s war in its third year.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
Click to expand...
why isn't it his job? His job is to secure the best possible future for his country. Getting outside help, including fighters, could be seen as that best possible future for his country. If it eases the suffering of his people, he should absolutely be trying to get whatever help he can.

Our FF turned to the French to get our freedom. We have turned to NATO and our various partners in many of the recent wars we have been in. pretty much any war of the last hundred years has relied on alliances. even the Russians have done this, sticking their noses into weaker countries business as a "helpful" ally to push their own self-centered goals.

Don't get me wrong, I believe a good chunk of his motivation is purely self preservation for his power structure, but that doesn't mean it isn't his job to get outside help.
 
#78,366
#78,366
Orangeburst said:
I will ask again, why hasnt he asked for troops? Yall say that is his job.
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I thought he did early on. IIRC he called for NATO to establish a no-fly zone. also wanted some help in the Black Sea.

We rightly told him no.

I don't think it was a complete accident that Macron was suddenly talking about French troops to protect the Belarus border for Ukraine.

He probably has asked for troops, but it isn't public. and as others have stated, you don't just immediately make the big ask. He is being a salesman. Getting his foot in the door first with the small asks. The non lethal aid. Then slowly he stepped it up to lethal aid. Then air planes, then tanks, then men, then more artillery, more ammo, more drones, whatever whatever. That way people just overlook the big ask he snuck in there with the rest. Its how you boil a frog, you don't throw it into boiling water, you slowly raise the temp until its cooked and doesn't realize the danger.
 
#78,367
#78,367
GMekwF4WIAAIWh1
 
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#78,369
#78,369
MontyPython said:
Not sure why Ukraine wasting ATACMS on troop clusters, but damn they all dead.

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That's what M39 ATACMS are for, they have cluster bomblet munitions, specifically designed for use against infantry formations.

The ones they need for the Kerch bridge are the M48 or the M57 versions, with the single high-explosive penetrating warhead.
 
#78,370
#78,370
BeardedVol said:
That's what M39 ATACMS are for, they have cluster bomblet munitions, specifically designed for use against infantry formations.

The ones they need for the Kerch bridge are the M48 or the M57 versions, with the single high-explosive penetrating warhead.
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Yeah you're right. The area of effect is also significantly larger than HIMARS. I suppose long range hits like this one put Russia on notice that there's no safe haven within Ukrainian borders for troop training or massing.

116 Russian soldiers reportedly KIA in this one hit (3 M39s, 1 dud).

Also of interest, this occurred 50 miles behind the front lines - and Ukraine managed to have an observation drone loitering about unmolested. That's a double whammy problem for Russia.

Also, not only was there no apparent attempt to intercept the ATACMS with AA, but also the targeted troops appear oblivious to their imminent arrival. So, seemingly Russia was unable to react quickly enough to either try to intercept *or* warn anyone they were coming. Triple whammy.

Forbes article on M39s
 
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