UT Athletic Department hopes Jackson's charges are dropped

#76
#76
I have no problem giving Kiffin the benefit of the doubt, that he may not have realized that being issued a citation for shoplifting goes hand-in-hand with the arrest.

Put another way, the perpetrator is first arrested, then issued a citation in lieu of continued custody.

Here's the excerpt from the Tennessee legal code that addresses this:

40-7-118. Use of citations in lieu of continued custody of an arrested person. —

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:


(1) “Citation” means a written order issued by a peace officer requiring a person accused of violating the law to appear in a designated court or governmental office at a specified date and time. The order shall require the signature of the person to whom it is issued;...


(3) (A) “Peace officer” means an officer, employee or agent of government who has a duty imposed by law to:

...(ii) Make arrests for offenses, whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to specific offenses; ...​



(b) (1) A peace officer who has arrested a person for the commission of a misdemeanor committed in the peace officer's presence, or who has taken custody of a person arrested by a private person for the commission of a misdemeanor, shall issue a citation to the arrested person to appear in court in lieu of the continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate. ...
(2) (A) The provisions of this subsection (b) do not apply to an arrest for the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant as prohibited by § 55-10-401, unless the offender was admitted to a hospital, or detained for medical treatment for a period of at least three (3) hours, for injuries received in a driving under the influence incident...

(B) The provisions of this subsection (b) do not apply to any misdemeanor offense for which the provisions of § 55-10-207 or § 55-12-139 authorize a traffic citation in lieu of arrest, continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate.


(3) A peace officer may issue a citation to the arrested person to appear in court in lieu of the continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate if a person is arrested for:


(A) The offense of theft which formerly constituted shoplifting, in violation of § 39-14-103;...


(e) By accepting the citation, the defendant agrees to appear at the arresting law enforcement agency prior to trial to be booked and processed. Failure to so appear is a Class A misdemeanor.​



So, technically, Oliver was arrested prior to Kiffin saying that there had been no arrests for 11 months and 11 days. However, Kiffin likely equated this with a traffic citation, which is issued "in lieu of an arrest" (Tennesse code 55-10-207). I don't think that he was intentionally lying about the "no arrests" thing, I just think that he didn't know the difference. I wasn't sure either until I did the research.
 
#77
#77
no1g8r said:
I have no problem giving Kiffin the benefit of the doubt, that he may not have realized that being issued a citation for shoplifting goes hand-in-hand with the arrest.

Put another way, the perpetrator is first arrested, then issued a citation in lieu of continued custody.

Here's the excerpt from the Tennessee legal code that addresses this:
40-7-118. Use of citations in lieu of continued custody of an arrested person. —

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:


(1) “Citation” means a written order issued by a peace officer requiring a person accused of violating the law to appear in a designated court or governmental office at a specified date and time. The order shall require the signature of the person to whom it is issued;...


(3) (A) “Peace officer” means an officer, employee or agent of government who has a duty imposed by law to:
...(ii) Make arrests for offenses, whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to specific offenses; ...​
(b) (1) A peace officer who has arrested a person for the commission of a misdemeanor committed in the peace officer's presence, or who has taken custody of a person arrested by a private person for the commission of a misdemeanor, shall issue a citation to the arrested person to appear in court in lieu of the continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate. ...
(2) (A) The provisions of this subsection (b) do not apply to an arrest for the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant as prohibited by § 55-10-401, unless the offender was admitted to a hospital, or detained for medical treatment for a period of at least three (3) hours, for injuries received in a driving under the influence incident...

(B) The provisions of this subsection (b) do not apply to any misdemeanor offense for which the provisions of § 55-10-207 or § 55-12-139 authorize a traffic citation in lieu of arrest, continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate.


(3) A peace officer may issue a citation to the arrested person to appear in court in lieu of the continued custody and the taking of the arrested person before a magistrate if a person is arrested for:


(A) The offense of theft which formerly constituted shoplifting, in violation of § 39-14-103;...


(e) By accepting the citation, the defendant agrees to appear at the arresting law enforcement agency prior to trial to be booked and processed. Failure to so appear is a Class A misdemeanor.​
So, technically, Oliver was arrested prior to Kiffin saying that there had been no arrests for 11 months and 11 days. However, Kiffin likely equated this with a traffic citation, which is issued "in lieu of an arrest" (Tennesse code 55-10-207). I don't think that he was intentionally lying about the "no arrests" thing, I just think that he didn't know the difference. I wasn't sure either until I did the research.
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while you actually present the legal logic behind the (stupid) argument that the bammer is making, it doesn't help the argument in the least.

kiffin probably didn't know this happened until today when the citation was made public. why would oliver bring this up to kiffin if he didn't have to (remember this citation is similar to a speeding ticket)?

furthermore, the argument about oliver being sat out from dressing for the memphis game is a poor argument too because he wouldn't just now be getting suspended if kiff knew about it. i am sure he was told he wasn't dressing out prior to the shoplifting (which would explain why he was at the mall on a game day) or he didnt get to dress out because he was out gallivanting on a game day and not with the team.

take your pick, but i can all but guarantee kiffin had no knowledge of this shoplifting incident before today.
 
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#78
#78
I'm a die hard TN fan and a big believer in what kiffin is doing with the program on many levels...too many to discuss here. I also think fulmer was a tired old fart who started downhill over a decade ago...so don't throw me in as a fulmerite. That being said, and I'm sure I'll get tarred here, what bama and the gator fan are saying make more sense to me than some of the other arguments on this thread regarding a citation vs an arrest. Until someone helps me understand why the espn article on him dressing that day are wrong, seems valid to me.seems like we are grasping at technicalities to defend it despite kiffin's apparent attempt to say no one was arrested. Even if a citation is technically different, which I don't believe it is, the spirit of his comment applies to both an arrest or a citation. If not and if he was choosing his words that carefully...I would probably be more dissapointed in his attempt to spin an issue. I hope someone can show me why he didn't know about it until today and the not dressing for the memphis game was minterpreted by espn. Otherwise, I'm chalking this up to another quote that may need some revisionist history like those earlier in the year including mistakenly calling meyer a cheat was intentional to boost recruiting. While it sounds good as a cover-up and most tn fans have rallied behind it...does anyone really believe he consciously decided to mistakenly accuse meyer of cheating to raise his proile for recruiting? I chalk it up to the fact that he's 34 and not fully seasoned as so few his age would be (ie, youngest coach in league history)....but can build a staff, recruit and coach with the best of them. For that, I accept rather than ignore or come up with excuses for the imperfections.yeah, my coach says stupid crap...but he's going to whip bama and fl for years to come
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#79
#79
Mendocino said:
I'm a die hard TN fan and a big believer in what kiffin is doing with the program on many levels...too many to discuss here. I also think fulmer was a tired old fart who started downhill over a decade ago...so don't throw me in as a fulmerite. That being said, and I'm sure I'll get tarred here, what bama and the gator fan are saying make more sense to me than some of the other arguments on this thread regarding a citation vs an arrest. Until someone helps me understand why the espn article on him dressing that day are wrong, seems valid to me.seems like we are grasping at technicalities to defend it despite kiffin's apparent attempt to say no one was arrested. Even if a citation is technically different, which I don't believe it is, the spirit of his comment applies to both an arrest or a citation. If not and if he was choosing his words that carefully...I would probably be more dissapointed in his attempt to spin an issue. I hope someone can show me why he didn't know about it until today and the not dressing for the memphis game was minterpreted by espn. Otherwise, I'm chalking this up to another quote that may need some revisionist history like those earlier in the year including mistakenly calling meyer a cheat was intentional to boost recruiting. While it sounds good as a cover-up and most tn fans have rallied behind it...does anyone really believe he consciously decided to mistakenly accuse meyer of cheating to raise his proile for recruiting? I chalk it up to the fact that he's 34 and not fully seasoned as so few his age would be (ie, youngest coach in league history)....but can build a staff, recruit and coach with the best of them. For that, I accept rather than ignore or come up with excuses for the imperfections.yeah, my coach says stupid crap...but he's going to whip bama and fl for years to come
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I've already said it before, so here I go again. Oliver probably didn't dress out for other reasons. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to suspend him now instead of immediately after it happened if kiff knew. Wait until you hear what kiff has to say before you assume the worst because that's what the media wants. It sells the most and generates the most website hits.
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#80
#80
tnrunner13 said:
I've already said it before, so here I go again. Oliver probably didn't dress out for other reasons. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to suspend him now instead of immediately after it happened if kiff knew. Wait until you hear what kiff has to say before you assume the worst because that's what the media wants. It sells the most and generates the most website hits.
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Click to expand...

Again, I said I hope someone can show why espn is wrong. Not speculate. Show. Ideally I'm looking for ut or kiffin to say they just now found out. Board speculation of reasons means less to me....I would expect nothing less.

Started my post more to address those clinging to technicalities that kiffin knew, but denied anyone had been arrested b/c it was only a citation.
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#81
#81
tnrunner13 said:
I've already said it before, so here I go again. Oliver probably didn't dress out for other reasons. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to suspend him now instead of immediately after it happened if kiff knew. Wait until you hear what kiff has to say before you assume the worst because that's what the media wants. It sells the most and generates the most website hits.
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The reports that I've seen, in multiple places, state the following:

"Oliver's punishment was handled internally, but he was taken off the dress roster for that game and banned from team activities, according to Tennessee athletic department spokesperson Tiffany Carpenter."

So one of three conditions are possible:

1) The media is confused about some statements that Tiffany Carpenter, of the UTAA, made,

2) The media is lying about Tiffany Carpenter making statements at all.

3) The media is reporting what Tiffany Carpenter said accurately, which means that this issue was known about by the staff on Nov. 7th

If #1 or #2 is correct, then I'd expect the athletic association to clarify that fairly quickly.

If #3 is correct, then Kiffin was splitting hairs when he said on Nov. 11 that no arrests had been made.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
 
#83
#83
GAVol said:
Seriously . . . Is it really THAT interesting?
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Sure, it's kind of a slow week. Florida is playing Florida International University this weekend. It's not like I can go to an FIU forum and talk player matchups and X's and O's. :wink2:
 
#84
#84
GAVol said:
Seriously . . . Is it really THAT interesting?
Click to expand...
:eek:lol: For Rival fans it is...They don't realize that all of their postings and articles stating how they SO desire Lane to fail ultimately shows the fear they have. They want LANE gone NOW along with his Daddy and it seems to be ALL they are thinking about. You could spend eternity reading all of their ramblings!! WILL CLK and staff be successful at UT? I REALLY hope they are but one thing I know is that the rivals are REALLY afraid that they will....:rock:
 
#85
#85
no1g8r said:
Sure, it's kind of a slow week. Florida is playing Florida International University this weekend. It's not like I can go to an FIU forum and talk player matchups and X's and O's. :wink2:
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I understand. It's just that this whole topic just has a "Mike and Mike in the Morning" kind of feel to it as far as meaning goes.
 
#86
#86
pattiycake said:
They don't realize that all of their postings and articles stating how they SO desire Lane to fail ultimately shows the fear they have. They want LANE gone NOW along with his Daddy and it seems to be ALL they are thinking about. You could spend eternity reading all of their ramblings!! WILL CLK and staff be successful at UT? I REALLY hope they are but one thing I know is that the rivals are REALLY afraid that they will
Click to expand...


I hear this argument a lot, but I fail to see how this equates to "fear". Many Florida fans are similarly amused by the trials and tribulations of Bobby Bowden, though they certainly don't fear him. He's the coach of a rival team, and opposing fans generally enjoy making fun of mishaps occurring with rival teams.

Another example is Charlie Weis of Notre Dame. Across the nation there are a lot of folks who have a deep dislike for Notre Dame. Those folks are often burning up message boards expressing their amusement at the tribulations of Charlie Weis. Do any of these folks FEAR Charlie Weis? Absolutely not. Not even Navy fears Charlie Weis.

With that said, I still don't understand the "fear" argument when it comes to rival fans posting about Kiffin. But if it makes you feel better to think that, there's no real harm.
 
#87
#87
GAVol said:
I understand. It's just that this whole topic just has a "Mike and Mike in the Morning" kind of feel to it as far as meaning goes.
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I can appreciate that (which is part of why I'm no fan of Mike & Mike in the Morning). I think most of the off-the-field stuff gets overblown in the media. For that matter, a lot of the on-the-field stuff does, too.
 
#88
#88
If you are issued a speeding ticket by a State Trooper in TN you are technically "arrested" until the tropper lets you go with a citation. This shoplifting citation falls under the same catagory, should we or the press now dig into every players driving records?
 
#89
#89
no1g8r said:
I hear this argument a lot, but I fail to see how this equates to "fear". Many Florida fans are similarly amused by the trials and tribulations of Bobby Bowden, though they certainly don't fear him. He's the coach of a rival team, and opposing fans generally enjoy making fun of mishaps occurring with rival teams.

Another example is Charlie Weis of Notre Dame. Across the nation there are a lot of folks who have a deep dislike for Notre Dame. Those folks are often burning up message boards expressing their amusement at the tribulations of Charlie Weis. Do any of these folks FEAR Charlie Weis? Absolutely not. Not even Navy fears Charlie Weis.

With that said, I still don't understand the "fear" argument when it comes to rival fans posting about Kiffin. But if it makes you feel better to think that, there's no real harm.
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If it makes me feel better? :eek:lol: :eek:lol::eek:lol: My reply was aimed at rival fans who spend their days posting ridiculous accusations and rumors in hopes that CLK will fail at UT. Not real sure why you chose to reply....:p
 
#90
#90
hog88 said:
If you are issued a speeding ticket by a State Trooper in TN you are technically "arrested" until the tropper lets you go with a citation. This shoplifting citation falls under the same catagory, should we or the press now dig into every players driving records?
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Not quite. In Tennessee, speeding tickets can be issued "in lieu of an arrest". A person can then pay a fine and never have to appear in court.

For misdemeanor crimes, a citation can be issued "in lieu of continued custody". The perpetrator still has to go to the police station to be processed sometime over the next two weeks, and must appear before the court. The Tennessee legal system considers the perpetrator to be under arrest until the citation is signed by the perpetrator. If the perpetrator doesn't sign, then he is taken to the police station for processing.

There is a difference.

That said, I can see where Kiffin may have misunderstood the difference.

I'm also seeing reports where Kiffin is saying the he didn't know until yesterday. I'm also seeing reports quoting the Asst PR Director of the UT Athletic Association, Tiffany Carpenter, as saying that they did know and that the punishment was handled internally.

GoVolsExtra reports that they confirmed with Tiffany Carpenter that they knew of Oliver receiving the citation on the day it occurred.

It would be ideal if Tiffany and Lane could get on the same page on this one.
 
#91
#91
pattiycake said:
:eek:lol: For Rival fans it is...They don't realize that all of their postings and articles stating how they SO desire Lane to fail ultimately shows the fear they have. They want LANE gone NOW along with his Daddy and it seems to be ALL they are thinking about. You could spend eternity reading all of their ramblings!! WILL CLK and staff be successful at UT? I REALLY hope they are but one thing I know is that the rivals are REALLY afraid that they will....:rock:
Click to expand...

So, its not that interesting then.
 
#92
#92
I like the assumption that all rival fans want UT to fail. Sorry not here. I hope CLK and Co can bring UT back to the top. It only helps my school out to play the best year in year out and it helps the conference overall when more teams sit in the rankings. If CLK can get it done then I hope he stays around for a long time.
 
#93
#93
TideWarrior said:
I like the assumption that all rival fans want UT to fail. Sorry not here. I hope CLK and Co can bring UT back to the top. It only helps my school out to play the best year in year out and it helps the conference overall when more teams sit in the rankings. If CLK can get it done then I hope he stays around for a long time.
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:wub:
 
#94
#94
Bamascoop said:
I think his decision with JJ will define his as the Tennessee coach. I think he had to keep them all or kick them all off the team. He looks like he is playing favorites no matter what the outcome if he keeps Jackson.

Now we know that Kiffin has also lied when he said that Tenn has had nobody arrested when he clearly knew the other kid had been arrested for shoplifting.

I wonder how long the powers that be at Tennessee will put up with this.

I am a BAMa fan so clearly I do not like Tennessee but I do respect the program. Like it or not Tennessee is a very tradition rich program and one of the top programs in the SEC and the country so I wonder if this thug mentality will continue to be tolerated by the gray hairs with the money.

Just a thought!!
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like jimmy johns slingin crack?
 
#95
#95
pattiycake said:
:eek:lol: For Rival fans it is...They don't realize that all of their postings and articles stating how they SO desire Lane to fail ultimately shows the fear they have. They want LANE gone NOW along with his Daddy and it seems to be ALL they are thinking about. You could spend eternity reading all of their ramblings!! WILL CLK and staff be successful at UT? I REALLY hope they are but one thing I know is that the rivals are REALLY afraid that they will....:rock:
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I guess that also makes the assumption by you that all the UT fans that have started threads and posted in them regarding Saban and Meyer are afraid of them. Lets go back and look at all those. The fact is we like our teams and some hate the others more and want them to fail but the better they all are the better the conference
 
#96
#96
TideWarrior said:
I guess that also makes the assumption by you that all the UT fans that have started threads and posted in them regarding Saban and Meyer are afraid of them. Lets go back and look at all those.
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I concur..Although it is implied I should have stated certain fans and not included all in one basket. :p
 
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#99
#99
Bamascoop said:
I think his decision with JJ will define his as the Tennessee coach. I think he had to keep them all or kick them all off the team. He looks like he is playing favorites no matter what the outcome if he keeps Jackson.

Now we know that Kiffin has also lied when he said that Tenn has had nobody arrested when he clearly knew the other kid had been arrested for shoplifting.

I wonder how long the powers that be at Tennessee will put up with this.

I am a BAMa fan so clearly I do not like Tennessee but I do respect the program. Like it or not Tennessee is a very tradition rich program and one of the top programs in the SEC and the country so I wonder if this thug mentality will continue to be tolerated by the gray hairs with the money.

Just a thought!!
Click to expand...

Next time you have one......................just let it go.
"can't fix :crazy:"
 
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