Update with AJ Johnson trial

#28
#28
f77f00 said:
I have seen enough encounters with the law from the periphery to lose whatever trust I had in the institution.
Click to expand...

Making generalalizations like this are a huge part of the problem on both sides.

I encourage anyone who thinks the police are the ONLY problem in this country to go down to their local police department or sheriff's department and ask to go on a ride along for the entire shift. Do it on a Friday or Saturday night, and ask to be placed in their most active zone.

I promise you that your perspectives will be changed. If you have the balls to do it!!!

If you don't have the balls to do it then please stop criticizing the job of law enforcement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#29
#29
gunner said:
Not really. I have seen it many times over. When it comes to a criminal trial co-defendants ALWAYS minminum their involvment in the alleged crimes and point the finger at the other guy, that's why by the rules of criminal procedures that each defendant MUST have a separate attorney to represent their own interest.

My knowledge of the Criminal Justice system is based on my experience working as a law enforcement officer for the past 20 years, not watching television.
Click to expand...

I took exception with your comment that lawyers will say anything to get a client acquitted. The inference is that attorneys will lie. Besides being unethical and prohibited for a lawyer to do that, a good defense attorney can often get a client acquitted by pointing out simple truths. Often, that simple truth is that the police investigation was not very good and therefore the evidence is weak and not convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree with everything else you said.

AJ might get acquitted of the charges, but I seriously doubt his lawyer will "say anything" to make it happen. As a side, officers of the law (unlike lawyers) are not forbidden to lie in their official capacity. Officers routinely mislead suspects to further their investigations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#30
#30
Ashevolle said:
I took exception with your comment that lawyers will say anything to get a client acquitted. The inference is that attorneys will lie. Besides being unethical and prohibited for a lawyer to do that, a good defense attorney can often get a client acquitted by pointing out simple truths. Often, that simple truth is that the police investigation was not very good and therefore the evidence is weak and not convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree with everything else you said.

AJ might get acquitted of the charges, but I seriously doubt his lawyer will "say anything" to make it happen. As a side, officers of the law (unlike lawyers) are not forbidden to lie in their official capacity. Officers routinely mislead suspects to further their investigations.
Click to expand...

A dishonest lawyer....yeah, whoever heard of such a thing??
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#32
#32
Ten_Titans said:
As a Vol fan, I'm past the point of caring how this goes. Ready to move forward.
Click to expand...

You're right, so why is this still in the Tennessee Vols Football forum? A few more charges and we should get a dedicated room for coaching violations and player criminal allegations. Could call it Tenn's Pen
 
#35
#35
Despite the comments made here, I believe it's ok to support the good cops AND want the bad ones removed. I honestly don't know how you guys come to the conclusion that one must be either pro or con police. If you are one of the good guys, you have my support. If you are/were ever a jerk with badge, then that is all you are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 people
#36
#36
chargervol said:
Despite the comments made here, I believe it's ok to support the good cops AND want the bad ones removed. I honestly don't know how you guys come to the conclusion that one must be either pro or con police. If you are one of the good guys, you have my support. If you are/were ever a jerk with badge, then that is all you are.
Click to expand...


I agree completely, and in my experience the vast majority of of law enforcement officers are dedicated and hard working professionals. These professionals want the few bad officers removed from our profession as much as anyone. I appreciate your support.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#37
#37
Ten_Titans said:
As a Vol fan, I'm past the point of caring how this goes. Ready to move forward.
Click to expand...

Yep and frankly, I'm over Pearson as well. I'm all for the truth coming out and justice being served one way or the other, but the sheer stupidity demonstrated by Pearson after the AJ incident boggles the mind. Not going to worry about people who are determined to shoot themselves in the foot. If he's innocent, great, but if I were the coach...and I'm not...I'd really have to think long and hard about making Pearson a big part of my offensive plans going forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#38
#38
If AJ is found innocent I wouldn't be too surprised to see AJ just enter the draft next year.
 
#39
#39
skasper06 said:
If AJ is found innocent I wouldn't be too surprised to see AJ just enter the draft next year.
Click to expand...

Can he do that? I'm not so sure. La'el Collin's lawyer said if he didn't get drafted in the first 3 rounds he
would just re-enter next year. The league said no.

AJ was still draft eligible, he didn't lose his status.
 
#40
#40
gunner said:
Making generalalizations like this are a huge part of the problem on both sides.

I encourage anyone who thinks the police are the ONLY problem in this country to go down to their local police department or sheriff's department and ask to go on a ride along for the entire shift. Do it on a Friday or Saturday night, and ask to be placed in their most active zone.

I promise you that your perspectives will be changed. If you have the balls to do it!!!

If you don't have the balls to do it then please stop criticizing the job of law enforcement.
Click to expand...

It is not a generalization and how you got "only problem" from what I said is beyond me. Talk about a generalization.

I don't live in a hell hole. I would ride my bike on any beat they serve in this town at any time of night.

My response is based on seeing multiple friends have horrible bad encounters with horrible cops. I know some good ones too. The problem is the good ones never seem to speak up about the bad ones. Multiple people shafted by cops and the court system for nada. One spent thousands trying to keep their license and lost it anyway over a "failed" sobriety check. She didn't fail a breath test or a blood test, just a roadside check that she couldn't pass on a great day. Oh, she had one beer, hours earlier in the evening. Her friend traveling with her got the pleasure of being told to walk home down Hwy 321. She didn't even know where she was and they let a young woman walk alone at 245am down a highway.

I know enough cops in this town (a few good ones even) to speak with first hand knowledge. That is my assessment.

I have lived in other towns that are actually scary. Cops there probably do feel like targets and they deal with some real trash. They are not all bad, but God help you if you get on their bad side. They can and will abuse their authority with impunity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#41
#41
gunner said:
Making generalalizations like this are a huge part of the problem on both sides.

I encourage anyone who thinks the police are the ONLY problem in this country to go down to their local police department or sheriff's department and ask to go on a ride along for the entire shift. Do it on a Friday or Saturday night, and ask to be placed in their most active zone.

I promise you that your perspectives will be changed. If you have the balls to do it!!!

If you don't have the balls to do it then please stop criticizing the job of law enforcement.
Click to expand...

Balls might be what got a few young men into the situation that they are in currently.
 
#42
#42
f77f00 said:
It is not a generalization and how you got "only problem" from what I said is beyond me. Talk about a generalization.

I don't live in a hell hole. I would ride my bike on any beat they serve in this town at any time of night.

My response is based on seeing multiple friends have horrible bad encounters with horrible cops. I know some good ones too. The problem is the good ones never seem to speak up about the bad ones. Multiple people shafted by cops and the court system for nada. One spent thousands trying to keep their license and lost it anyway over a "failed" sobriety check. She didn't fail a breath test or a blood test, just a roadside check that she couldn't pass on a great day. Oh, she had one beer, hours earlier in the evening. Her friend traveling with her got the pleasure of being told to walk home down Hwy 321. She didn't even know where she was and they let a young woman walk alone at 245am down a highway.

I know enough cops in this town (a few good ones even) to speak with first hand knowledge. That is my assessment.

I have lived in other towns that are actually scary. Cops there probably do feel like targets and they deal with some real trash. They are not all bad, but God help you if you get on their bad side. They can and will abuse their authority with impunity.
Click to expand...

You're right, not all cops are bad. The inverse is also true, not all cops are good.

I really think there is a cultural problem in the emergency services. I spent several years in the full-time fire service and was also an emergency first-responder. The fire service has a lingering culture, at least in the United States (Europe is another story), that is more about bravado, swagger, and "balls." People's lives are risked because of a cultural inability to change and to let go of old perceptions in favor of new, safer, but less sexy methods. The identity and draw for many recruits is in that helmet, the turn out gear, the big shiny truck, whatever.

The police and law enforcement people that we had to work closely with on many scenes, in training or otherwise, seemed no less shackled to their identities. In law enforcement it seemed to be more about the badge, the gun, and the blue lights, than about actually being around to make life better for those that they *serve*.

I don't know how to fix it, especially not when the culture in this country is so extreme. It is if we are forced to choose between standing on the side of the police seeing no wrong, or standing against them, seeing no right.

Part of me thinks that the increased and intense scrutiny on law enforcement is long over due. You should never give someone a weapon and the authority to use it without pervasive public oversight. The other part of me cringes because good officers lives are being endangered by the knee-jerk media reactionism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 people
#43
#43
gunner said:
I agree completely, and in my experience the vast majority of of law enforcement officers are dedicated and hard working professionals. These professionals want the few bad officers removed from our profession as much as anyone. I appreciate your support.
Click to expand...

What you just said is terrifying.

If you, the ones with authority to use force to make civilians comply with the law, can't police yourselves (even if it is a tiny minority of wrong doers), how do you think the rest of us who don't have guns, badges, or the authority can do it?

It's almost as if there is no interest in really driving out bad cops because it might risk good cops too. That's like saying we shouldn't have DUI checkpoints on the 4th of July because the vast majority of drivers wont be drunk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#44
#44
daj2576 said:
What you just said is terrifying.

If you, the ones with authority to use force to make civilians comply with the law, can't police yourselves (even if it is a tiny minority of wrong doers), how do you think the rest of us who don't have guns, badges, or the authority can do it?

It's almost as if there is no interest in really driving out bad cops because it might risk good cops too. That's like saying we shouldn't have DUI checkpoints on the 4th of July because the vast majority of drivers wont be drunk.
Click to expand...


I will report any and all wrong doing to internal affairs. In my agency, its their responsibility to do something. I don't have the authority to investigate another law enforcement officer for wrong doing, but internal affairs does, and they will.

In 20 years, I have never had to report another officer to internal affairs, because misconduct by law enforcement officers is extremely rare. Regardless of what the media reports the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers aren't corrupt. If you believe that they are then you probably have been watching too much overdramatizing by the television news media.
 
Last edited:
#45
#45
gunner said:
I will report any and all wrong doing to internal affairs. In my agency, its their responsibility to do something. I don't have the authority to investigate another law enforcement officer for wrong doing, but internal affairs does, and they will.

In 20 years, I have never had to report another officer to internal affairs, because misconduct by law enforcement officers is extremely rare. Regardless of what the media reports the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers aren't corrupt. If you believe that they are then you probably have been watching too much overdramatizing by the television news media.
Click to expand...

You are apparently federal police. I would say that the bar for entry in your field is significantly higher (generally) than your average municipal beat cop. Better quality typically begets better results.

Understand though that when we have conversations on the issues of police, or criminal procedure, you seem to want to incorrectly apply federal rules, issues and anecdotes. None of these recent cases of civilian death involved federal police misapplying their force or mandate. In fact, one could correctly argue that there are oceans between federal police power and the state police power. It is the latter, more than the former, that has so many rightfully concerned.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#46
#46
daj2576 said:
You are apparently federal police. I would say that the bar for entry in your field is significantly higher (generally) than your average municipal beat cop. Better quality typically begets better results.

Understand though that when we have conversations on the issues of police, or criminal procedure, you seem to want to incorrectly apply federal rules, issues and anecdotes. None of these recent cases of civilian death involved federal police misapplying their force or mandate. In fact, one could correctly argue that there are oceans between federal police power and the state police power. It is the latter, more than the former, that has so many rightfully concerned.
Click to expand...

I was a law enforcement officer in Florida at both the state and local level prior to my present agency. I worked as deputy sheriff and a state parole officer, not too much difference in the way we did our job. We had similar policies and procedures to follow regarding use of force, code of conduct, and professional standards that the Feds must follow. Most agencices do because the rules are governed by the U.S. Constitution and come from case law from various court decisions.

The current cases of alleged wrongdoings of law enforcement officers are in fact very isolated and misrepresented by the television news media, and are in no way reflective of the entire law enforcement community at any level, federal, local or state.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#48
#48
skasper06 said:
Yesterday the Knoxville News Sentinel reported AJ Johnson has requested a separate trial from former teammate Michael Williams. The article states it seems apparent the two are not on the same page regarding their defense and AJ wants a separate jury to ensure a fair trial without prejudice from jurors against Williams' verdict.

Ex-Vol Johnson wants separate trial from Williams in rape case - News Sentinel Story
Click to expand...

Wasn't there always some speculation on this from the beginning?

HoptownVol said:
Can he do that? I'm not so sure. La'el Collin's lawyer said if he didn't get drafted in the first 3 rounds he
would just re-enter next year. The league said no.

AJ was still draft eligible, he didn't lose his status.
Click to expand...

That's really unfortunate for him. He should have just spoken to police (with an attorney present, ALWAYS) two weeks ago instead of avoiding it. This likely could have been avoided especially if his alibi held up.
 
Last edited:
#49
#49
CAVPUT said:
Yep and frankly, I'm over Pearson as well. I'm all for the truth coming out and justice being served one way or the other, but the sheer stupidity demonstrated by Pearson after the AJ incident boggles the mind. Not going to worry about people who are determined to shoot themselves in the foot. If he's innocent, great, but if I were the coach...and I'm not...I'd really have to think long and hard about making Pearson a big part of my offensive plans going forward.
Click to expand...
If he didn't do anything then Pearson shouldn't be punished. People like you are idiots. Oh well,**** him. That's your attitude and it's stupid. If he didn't do anything then the coache's can do anything they want with him. Furthermore, I'm glad you're not the coach.
Having said that, I don't give two ****s how this ends up. But for you to punish a guy who may have not done anything is stupid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#50
#50
gunner said:
I was a law enforcement officer in Florida at both the state and local level prior to my present agency. I worked as deputy sheriff and a state parole officer, not too much difference in the way we did our job. We had similar policies and procedures to follow regarding use of force, code of conduct, and professional standards that the Feds must follow. Most agencices do because the rules are governed by the U.S. Constitution and come from case law from various court decisions.

The current cases of alleged wrongdoings of law enforcement officers are in fact very isolated and misrepresented by the television news media, and are in no way reflective of the entire law enforcement community at any level, federal, local or state.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt the media tends to sensationalize, that is why I don't base my views solely, or even tentatively, on what I'm shown on the news.

As I said earlier I believe there is a cultural problem with law enforcement, and it doesn't take killing civilians to prove it. Not only that but Americans in the land of the free are close to the most regulated and penalized people, certainly the most incarcerated, in the developed world.

So, what happens when you combine too many laws with an enforcement arm filled with people who identify as the ultimate authority, the righteous extension of moral will?

Well, you get a heavily militarized police force with IED resistant vehicles, BDUs, SWAT teams in every town, and police officers who identify as the gun and the badge ready to jump into the fray, instead of people who are conscientious and seek to deescalate confrontation. It's dangerously close to an "us vs them" mentality in the police force and the few senseless killings are just the tiny tip of the ice-burg. Abuse of force doesn't require murder to illustrate.

See also:

Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces: Radley Balko: 9781610394574: Amazon.com: Books

The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness: Michelle Alexander, Cornel West: 9781595586438: Amazon.com: Books

http://www.amazon.com/Government-Wo...60838&sr=1-2&keywords=rise+of+the+warrior+cop

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America: Radley Balko: Amazon.com: Books

So yes, I firmly believe there is a cultural issue. I don't expect the LEO, who on a *college football* related message board, who chose a gun as his avatar, who chose the name "gunner", has a signature as "the big orange gun", and who self identifies as a fed Leo on his profile, would readily pick up the cultural issues I'm throwing down. That would be like expecting a random white man in Birmingham in 1950 to answer affirmatively that there might be some cultural issues regarding race relations.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 15 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top