Turkey: Our NATO Ally

#26
#26
as long as they continue to support Chechnya our Russian friends have no right to point fingers at our allies.
 
#27
#27
Who knew this would turn into yet another Vlad and Russia bashing thread?? Lol
 
#28
#28
Pacer92 said:
Who knew this would turn into yet another Vlad and Russia bashing thread?? Lol
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well it was a thread talking about the pros and cons of Turkey but the OP never responded to any of those while jumping straight into defending Russia. :whistling:
 
#29
#29
volprof said:
Oh, nothing to do with immigration policy.

My comments are in reference to Orban's illiberalism. He is more cozy with Putin than Washington would like; he also stands among a growing number of rightist European leaders that are increasingly skeptical of NATO, the EU, and "the West." They find more spiritual solidarity with Moscow than with Washington or Brussels.
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Couldn't the EU's asinine policies be driving those countries closer to Russia? I mean their open immigration, ME, welfare, and monetary policies combined are so jacked up even the Brits that are sane want out.
 
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#30
#30
Pacer92 said:
Who knew this would turn into yet another Vlad and Russia bashing thread?? Lol
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Question: I have seen almost every poster on here criticize the US government for something but have never seen you or RAS criticize Russia. Don't you find that odd?
 
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#31
#31
red butler said:
Couldn't the EU's asinine policies be driving those countries closer to Russia? I mean their open immigration, ME, welfare, and monetary policies combined are so jacked up even the Brits that are sane want out.
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it definitely could, but not directly. I would see them dismantling the EU long before you saw most of the nations jumping into the Russian boat. The problem with the EU is that it looks after the EU not the individual nations. As those nations start reasserting themselves you could definitely see a couple of the obvious guys leaning heavily towards Russia. but for the rest look for it to be a lot more wanting self-determination rather than another umbrella to hide under.
 
#32
#32
volfanhill said:
Question: I have seen almost every poster on here criticize the US government for something but have never seen you or RAS criticize Russia. Don't you find that odd?
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One cannot criticize what is perfect.

Besides, they both intend on being beatified by Patriarch Kiril one day.
 
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#33
#33
red butler said:
Couldn't the EU's asinine policies be driving those countries closer to Russia? I mean their open immigration, ME, welfare, and monetary policies combined are so jacked up even the Brits that are sane want out.
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Yes. I just meant that my comments weren't directly related to immigration policy.

Yes, these policies are driving some Europeans into the open arms of Russia. Even though the EU has represented the most stable and prosperous period of European history, people always think the grass is greener on the other side, as we all know, so now some seek Utopia elsewhere.

But, besides now being a failed unicorn, the EU was always desirable to Americans because it would get Europeans to stop killing one another. On the other hand, the EU has never been desirable to Russians as it further enables American hegemony in Europe. Destroying the EU has always been a Russian hobby horse, but Putin has made it a particular fascination.

But, this isn't all simply about the EU. Developments in places like Hungary have happened due to unique factors in those places as well, rather than merely reactions to wider historical events occurring in the EU. For instance, Hungarian nationalism (Magyar exclusionism, if you will) and Pan-Turanism have held sway in that area long before the EU and even longer before thousands of Muslim refugees arrived on European coastlines in their little dinghies.

Russians should be careful what they ask for though. A destabilized Europe that then needed to reunify has not worked out well for them in the past. There's no reason to suspect that the third time will be the charm either. Quests for unicorns so rarely work well in the end.
 
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#34
#34
volprof said:
Yes. I just meant that my comments weren't directly related to immigration policy.

Yes, these policies are driving some Europeans into the open arms of Russia. Even though the EU has represented the most stable and prosperous period of European history, people always think the grass is greener on the other side, as we all know, so now some seek Utopia elsewhere.

But, besides now being a failed unicorn, the EU was always desirable to Americans because it would get Europeans to stop killing one another. On the other hand, the EU has never been desirable to Russians as it further enables American hegemony in Europe. Destroying the EU has always been a Russian hobby horse, but Putin has made it a particular fascination.

But, this isn't all simply about the EU. Developments in places like Hungary have happened due to unique factors in those places as well, rather than merely reactions to wider historical events occurring in the EU. For instance, Hungarian nationalism (Magyar exclusionism, if you will) and Pan-Turanism have held sway in that area long before the EU and even longer before thousands of Muslim refugees arrived on European coastlines in their little dinghies.

Russians should be careful what they ask for though. A destabilized Europe that then needed to reunify has not worked out well for them in the past. There's no reason to suspect that the third time will be the charm either. Quests for unicorns so rarely work well in the end.
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are the Magyars still the major ethnicity/culture in Hungary? I am going to have to look that up now.

*eh they just call them Hungarians now. and still hold a vast majority. ~78%. but thats down from 96% in 2001. thats a pretty quick demographic change. and interesting enough its not just there being more foreigners, there are also fewer Hungarians too.
 
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#37
#37
Velo Vol said:
What about Gypsies?
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Still quite a few around. As Louder mentioned, that's probably the major component of the unclaimed nationalities part of the population, since the Romany are not really a "national" group.

If I'm not mistaken, Jobbik's official stance on the Romany is that they should all either be interned or deported.

Personally, I'd like to know where, in Central/Eastern Europe, Jobbik thinks they're going to be able to deport 1-2 million people without starting a war. But, then again, fascism is a political ideology that has never been known for being at loggerheads with the desire to use warfare to achieve political ends.
 
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#38
#38
Turkey's quasi-dictator came to Washington last week and didn't even see the president, so things aren't so tight here.
 
#39
#39
Velo Vol said:
Turkey's quasi-dictator came to Washington last week and didn't even see the president, so things aren't so tight here.
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Erdogan is a weird piece of work. I think he's basically what you would have if Donald Trump was in charge of a second-rate, fallen world power. Basically, an oversensitive, sniveling autocrat, who seems to derive some sexual pleasure from suing, imprisoning, and arresting people for ridiculous and asinine things.
 
#43
#43
It's a bit ironic and peculiar that Germany, of all nations, takes this step recognizing another country that committed genocide...

This seems odd...

With that said though, the Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire, is well documented...
 
#44
#44
Pacer92 said:
It's a bit ironic and peculiar that Germany, of all nations, takes this step recognizing another country that committed genocide...

This seems odd...

With that said though, the Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire, is well documented...
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And why wouldn't they? Yes, they committed one of the largest atrocities in history, so that certainly gives the modern Germany that's served their penance the right to call a spade a spade.
 
#45
#45
Grand Vol said:
And why wouldn't they? Yes, they committed one of the largest atrocities in history, so that certainly gives the modern Germany that's served their penance the right to call a spade a spade.
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I agree. They've paid their price. In not knocking Germany at all, I'm part German...

Just seems a bit odd that it's Germany recognizing this, of all countries...a fellow NATO member and European partner, and not someone like Russia, Iran etc...
 
#48
#48
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#50
#50
What is the military's position that is different than the current (prior?) ruling politicians?
 
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