Trump just solved health care

#26
#26
lawgator1 said:
He has no idea what he's doing. The powers that be drew this up, told him its a good thing and would make it look like he's getting something done.

So then he of course went off the deep end claiming that "millions and millions" will now get less expensive coverage and better care.

Which is literally impossible.
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It's very possible. He's opened up interstate lines to an extent and made things easier on non profits. Greater competition is how you control prices. Not through arbitrary caps that only lead to shortages.
 
#28
#28
Vol8188 said:
It's very possible. He's opened up interstate lines to an extent and made things easier on non profits. Greater competition is how you control prices. Not through arbitrary caps that only lead to shortages.
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Bless your heart, you really think that the purpose is to increase competition between insurers offering the same coverages, don't you?
 
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#30
#30
Vol8188 said:
If you insert price controls you will immediately limit access. Supply and demand. You can't avoid it.
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Yes, I agree there but what is going on with the doctors, hospitals, drug distributors, medical administrators, and local licensing is consumer fraud, price fixing, rico acts, colluding and anti-trust behavior. This is sometimes done at the local zoning authority as well.

Procedures | Surgery Center of Oklahoma

Now call your local hospital and see, if they give you a quote for heart by pass surgery -- they won't.

Insurance is not going to fix any of the stuff and neither will a single payer system, nor anything else other the good ole fashion way - through prosecution.
 
#31
#31
LSU-SIU said:
Yes, I agree there but what is going on with the doctors, hospitals, drug distributors, medical administrators, and local licensing is consumer fraud, price fixing, rico acts, colluding and anti-trust behavior. This is sometimes done at the local zoning authority as well.

Procedures | Surgery Center of Oklahoma

Now call your local hospital and see, if they give you a quote for heart by pass surgery -- they won't.

Insurance is not going to fix any of the stuff and neither will a single payer system, nor anything else other the good ole fashion way - through prosecution.
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Each case is going to be different. How they need to bypass, that patient's history, available medicines, available doctors (labor), and probably a bunch of other things is going to make it impossible to predict how much the surgery will cost. then you also have all the unknowns from afterwards, how that patient reacts and has to stay in the hospital, were there complications or other problems found at the same time?


now should the cost be based simply on what insurance you have and how much they can get out of them? no. but thats just looking at one side.
 
#32
#32
lawgator1 said:
He has no idea what he's doing. The powers that be drew this up, told him its a good thing and would make it look like he's getting something done.
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You could have posted this years ago when the ACA bill was written up. How many pages? Seriously doubt Herr Obama knew what the hell it meant either. Hell, no one read it.
 
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#33
#33
Bottom line (IMHO) ... the health care industry should not operate as a for profit, free market industry. The bottom line for the health care industry should be improving the quality of life for their fellow man. (That does not preclude health care workers from making a decent living).
 
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#34
#34
LouderVol said:
Each case is going to be different. How they need to bypass, that patient's history, available medicines, available doctors (labor), and probably a bunch of other things is going to make it impossible to predict how much the surgery will cost. then you also have all the unknowns from afterwards, how that patient reacts and has to stay in the hospital, were there complications or other problems found at the same time?


now should the cost be based simply on what insurance you have and how much they can get out of them? no. but thats just looking at one side.
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Those things are true but they should be able to give you a simple quote or an estimate, I can tell you that site I just gave use to have an estimate of $10k for by-pass. They further have videos as to what healthcare is broken.

Let me put it this way, let a car mechanic get reported for what these hospitals do and see what happens.
 
#35
#35
Vol8188 said:
O wow. I wish Twitter would just take mercy on him and ban him.
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I loved the idea of him staying on twitter because it helps to reveal what a fool he is, but it turns out the people that voted for him do not care how dumb he looks. That quote about getting away with shooting someone...I feel like this whole presidency is an Andy Kaufman level troll job.
 
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#36
#36
LSU-SIU said:
Yes, I agree there but what is going on with the doctors, hospitals, drug distributors, medical administrators, and local licensing is consumer fraud, price fixing, rico acts, colluding and anti-trust behavior. This is sometimes done at the local zoning authority as well.

Procedures | Surgery Center of Oklahoma

Now call your local hospital and see, if they give you a quote for heart by pass surgery -- they won't.

Insurance is not going to fix any of the stuff and neither will a single payer system, nor anything else other the good ole fashion way - through prosecution.
Click to expand...

Do you know why they're able to price fix? Lack of competition created by government intervention.

This EO increases competition.
 
#37
#37
luthervol said:
Bottom line (IMHO) ... the health care industry should not operate as a for profit, free market industry. The bottom line for the health care industry should be improving the quality of life for their fellow man. (That does not preclude health care workers from making a decent living).
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You realize this EO will increase the number of Non profit insurance companies, right?
 
#38
#38
Vol8188 said:
Do you know why they're able to price fix? Lack of competition created by government intervention.

This EO increases competition.
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There is a combination of things - lack of competition, a lot of times they do this at the local level as basically a kickback, they collude, they price fix, etc. The laws on the books are fine, nobody enforces them.
 
#39
#39
hohenfelsvol said:
You could have posted this years ago when the ACA bill was written up. How many pages? Seriously doubt Herr Obama knew what the hell it meant either. Hell, no one read it.
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That bill was debated in Congress for many months, a thousand amendments, multiple committee hearings.

I seem to remember a whole lot of GOPers here in a frenzy when Obama did things by EO to hurdle an uncooperative Congress.

Now?

200.gif
 
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#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
That bill was debated in Congress for many months, a thousand amendments, multiple committee hearings.

I seem to remember a whole lot of GOPers here in a frenzy when Obama did things by EO to hurdle an uncooperative Congress.

Now?

200.gif
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And still no one read it. They figured it out after it was passed. So many things came out they were wrong about.
 
#41
#41
luthervol said:
Bottom line (IMHO) ... the health care industry should not operate as a for profit, free market industry. The bottom line for the health care industry should be improving the quality of life for their fellow man. (That does not preclude health care workers from making a decent living).
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There really is no way of doing that - freedom and all. Now what they can do is enforce the laws that are already on the books when it comes to price fixing, colluding, anti-trust behavior, kickbacks, etc.

None of the politicians are interested in that -- so they will continue to act like they are fixing something but all they are doing is throwing money at the symptom.
 
#43
#43
luthervol said:
Bottom line (IMHO) ... the health care industry should not operate as a for profit, free market industry. The bottom line for the health care industry should be improving the quality of life for their fellow man. (That does not preclude health care workers from making a decent living).
Click to expand...

Your "HO" is dead wrong.........do not dumb down my health care for the sake of yours........
 
#44
#44
luthervol said:
Bottom line (IMHO) ... the health care industry should not operate as a for profit, free market industry. The bottom line for the health care industry should be improving the quality of life for their fellow man. (That does not preclude health care workers from making a decent living).
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What other industries do you think the same should apply to?
 
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#45
#45
LSU-SIU said:
I don't think anyone needs to "hurt Obamacare", it was doomed to collapse from the get go - score some temporary political points, maybe.
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20 million people signed up with the ACA, so your notion that it was created over a one-year period just to "score political points" is utterly stupid. ACA still works very well in some states. You forget that Trump has been steadily sabotaging it since he took office--I think mostly because he's a racist and is quite determined to undue everything Obama achieved, not because he actually disagrees with th policies--he doesn't know a damn thing--but, as I say, because he's a white supremacist who can't stand Obama.

The only thing that will come out of this executive order, I read, is cheap policies that will cover virtually nothing. Of course you can lower insurance premiums--but only with policies that don't cover preexisting conditions, prescription drugs or mental health care and have very high deductibles, etc. Trump is a disgrace.
 
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#47
#47
hog88 said:
What other industries do you think the same should apply to?
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Military, police, fire, judicial/courts, corrections, prisons, education, food and drug inspections, inspectors in general, social workers, orphanages, care for the elderly, parks service, roads, bridges, interstates, much of transportation including mass transit ....
 
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#48
#48
Vol8188 said:
Do you know why they're able to price fix? Lack of competition created by government intervention.

This EO increases competition.
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get back to us in a few months with evidence of increased competition and lower prices for health care. I very much doubt that will happen.
 
#49
#49
armchair said:
get back to us in a few months with evidence of increased competition and lower prices for health care. I very much doubt that will happen.
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You do know we had more of these non profit insurance companies prior to obama care?

So it's a simple fact that the regulations killed some of the competition. But you don't believe lower regulations will bring any of it back?
 
#50
#50
armchair said:
get back to us in a few months with evidence of increased competition and lower prices for health care. I very much doubt that will happen.
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That is not going to happen, I agree there, unless people are willing to put other people in jail on a massive scale nothing is going to change. Whether its healthcare or the banking industry.

Things will have to collapse, eventually they will, they always do.
 
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