The Semantics of "We Deserve Better."

#52
#52
ImportedVoL said:
at what point was there only 45k in the stands?
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15 to 20 minutes prekick. Here's 21 minutes and change prior to kickoff when the walking horse was out.

The picture actually leaves out some of the worst looking sections of the stadium.

20121103_114609.jpg
 
#54
#54
99gator said:
you want to attack his argument or are you going to just nitpick about how many people were in the stands?
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Agree. No need to hire a douche bag with a counter to over-ride the bigger picture (point).
 
#55
#55
99gator said:
you want to attack his argument or are you going to just nitpick about how many people were in the stands?
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Good luck finding 45k in that picture I posted...I'm not sure why that number even stuck out to him at that point.

I said 45k in reference to when McKenzie was on the field for his legend's recognition.

Regardless of the number (45k might be generous), it was a pitiful sight.
 
#56
#56
jeffmcflurry27 said:
Your argument is valid to an extent. However, it's sad when "we" talk crap about the players when they make bad plays or don't execute, all while knowing that "we" are no more capable than them. Yes, they do have a lot of opportunity through playing football, but I'm pretty sure it is a lot of pressure to be 18-22 years old and have that many people living vicariously though your successes. When they screw up, it ruins our day/week. Having said that, I would love to see them win again on a regular basis.
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I've never bashed a player and I don't like it either when others do it. But coaches are fair game.
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#57
#57
royboyvol said:
So its more about them winning than their education I'm guessing?
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Did you miss the "free education" part?
The pressure should be on the staff not the kids. The Dooley lovers have blamed the players repeatedly. They blame everyone except him. I find it BS to lay it on the kids. The staff is paid millions to assure a good program and when I say "we deserve better" it's aimed at the staff.
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#58
#58
royboyvol said:
There have been some good ones. It just seems a little weird to say 'we deserve young men to play better.'
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It's your inability to understand the meaning of "we deserve better".
If our professors are failing at teaching should we just accept it?
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#59
#59
I can't speak for any others in the Legion of the Miserable but I don't feel I "deserve" anything.

I EXPECT AND HOPE to see a well coached football team every week that has a shot of winning.
 
#60
#60
ImportedVoL said:
After the money leaves your pocket.. it is then by definition not your money any more..

So no, you have no right to determine how it is spent at that point..

You can however choose to keep it in your pocket.. and then it stays your money...
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When that money leaves my pocket and is spent on a product, as a consumer I deserve the said product and have reasonable expectations that the product is as good as advertised.
 
#61
#61
DaphneVol said:
You could probably argue this from many angles, but I think folks feel like they deserve better coaching to enable the players to play "better" so they can reach their full potential. This should also include the X's & O's as well as talent development. The players who want to get better and work their ass off deserve this.

We fans are selfish, but it's kind of our job to root for and expect results. That's what makes us fans or fanatics? Saying you "deserve" something could be confused with selfeshness but to me it's a level of expectation we vol fans have of the program.
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If we want better so that these young men can reach their full potential, I am all for it. I definitely want better, but wanting better and thinking I somehow deserve it because I am a fan has sorta been my point.
 
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#62
#62
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
Man it is about all...ALL...players, ex-players, students, donors, Alumni, and fans across the state or across the country or the world....starting all the way back to 1891.



All those VFL's before us built this program to where it is today. Their legacy and tradition of winning deserves to continue. That is why we all deserve it. We are the 2nd winningest football program in S.E.C. history....you don't think the VolNation deserves to keep it that way?

It is my opinion of course but all the answers you get are pretty much going to be. It sounds like maybe you don't want a real answer. You just want to stay stuck to the no one deserves anything trip...but whatever.
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No, after reading a lot of the responses and thinking about it some more myself, I think that some of the posters have some really good points.

I love football, and I love UT. I'm not an alumni and I can't afford season tickets. I try to take my son to the Orange & White game every year and my friends and I make at least one trip up every fall. But as I talk to other fans and read message boards like this, I feel like the focus of the fans get so much on themselves that we forget that Dooley is human (he just had surgery, has kids, and is trying his best [that doesn't mean he should keep his job, btw]) and these players are teenagers. I read a lot of posts that say, "I don't care what coach we hire or what criminals we recruit, I just want to win" and it ticks me off.

I want UT to be a program to be proud of, but there are a lot of schools that have been successful for a long time, some that have fallen off, and some that will never be up there again because of the economics of college football. Does that means that those fans "deserve" something because they've invested something into the university?

I think the reason the "We deserve better" crowd gets on my nerves is because that makes this more about the fans than it does about education, about teaching young men, about the University as a whole.
 
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#63
#63
Jmavols2 said:
Man seriously what kind of answer are you looking for? Haha he gave you a legitimate reason. But you're right we don't "deserve" anything. The kids playing deserve better. They all had multiple opportunities to go else where but they choose UT. Although education is good, you are kidding yourself if you think that these kids come here for only the education. These players want to go to the NFL and they have coaches that are not coaching them up and getting the most out of them. THEY deserve better and as fans we see that and want them to have better coaches. I for one am not going to another game until they make a change. We have more talent then what is being utilized! Anyone who has given money to the AD can make their own argument as to why they deserve better. Mine is simply that the players that put on that orange jersey on Saturday and represent this great university deserve to have the best opportunity possible. That's not happening right now ad makes most of us sick. (Maybe not you)
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I actually agree with a lot of what you guys are saying, but I guess maybe I'm being too philosophical for a football forum. If what you said above is true, and people just want better for the players, I think that is a whole different ballgame than wanting it for "us." I think that is ultimately my point. I don't think a lot of fans give a crap about those young men.
 
#64
#64
OrangeSquid said:
When that money leaves my pocket and is spent on a product, as a consumer I deserve the said product and have reasonable expectations that the product is as good as advertised.
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What advertising promises have been placed on products, related to the university, that you have been purchasing??? I haven't seen any of the "10 wins with a purchase of this UT jersey" promotions yet...
 
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#65
#65
99gator said:
you want to attack his argument or are you going to just nitpick about how many people were in the stands?
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If his argument is inherently flawed then it does not need attacking.. because it is wrong


The whole deserve argument is what is wrong with this country in the first place.. everyone thinks they deserve.. Their monthly government check, They deserve respect without giving any, and I could go on, but its pointless..

The only thing anyone deserves is what they go out and earn themselves.

You want UT to win.. go enroll in school.. try out for the team.. break bones and bleed for the rest of the guys on your team..

Then you might deserve to win..

Until then, your just a bunch of whiny crying arse punks who "deserve" a swift kick in the butt.. JMO
 
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#66
#66
ImportedVoL said:
If his argument is inherently flawed then it does not need attacking.. because it is wrong


The whole deserve argument is what is wrong with this country in the first place.. everyone thinks they deserve.. Their monthly government check, They deserve respect without giving any, and I could go on, but its pointless..

The only thing anyone deserves is what they go out and earn themselves.

You want UT to win.. go enroll in school.. try out for the team.. break bones and bleed for the rest of the guys on your team..

Then you might deserve to win..

Until then, your just a bunch of whiny crying arse punks who "deserve" a swift kick in the butt.. JMO
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Sums it up nicely. If all you are doing is screaming at your TV....... then you have earned nothing. Be a coach. Be a player. Do something to help. Or keep on wrongly assuming that you deserve something.
You got the only thing you deserved this morning, did you like it? Were you thankful? Or are you complaining, already? Get real folks. This board has went crazy. Which could be taken to mean people in general have also. :unsure:
 
#67
#67
I donate 3 figures and pay almost 4 figures for my season tix. It's a lot of money and I view it as an investment that I'm not getting a good return on. May be time to get it out unless I get something better in return.
 
#68
#68
I think we deserve better because we care so much. We invest our time, money, and more recently our pride to keep supporting this team. The formula for winning is not impossible to find. The reason we are losing is because of MISTAKES made by coaches, players and the administration that date back for a few years now.

Whether we start winning big again, or we fall to bottom of the SEC for good, my love for Orange and the Tennessee Vols will not change. But if the latter happens, it will be because of more avoidable MISTAKES. We deserve less of those.
 
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#69
#69
royboyvol said:
No, after reading a lot of the responses and thinking about it some more myself, I think that some of the posters have some really good points.

I love football, and I love UT. I'm not an alumni and I can't afford season tickets. I try to take my son to the Orange & White game every year and my friends and I make at least one trip up every fall. But as I talk to other fans and read message boards like this, I feel like the focus of the fans get so much on themselves that we forget that Dooley is human (he just had surgery, has kids, and is trying his best [that doesn't mean he should keep his job, btw]) and these players are teenagers. I read a lot of posts that say, "I don't care what coach we hire or what criminals we recruit, I just want to win" and it ticks me off.

I want UT to be a program to be proud of, but there are a lot of schools that have been successful for a long time, some that have fallen off, and some that will never be up there again because of the economics of college football. Does that means that those fans "deserve" something because they've invested something into the university?

I think the reason the "We deserve better" crowd gets on my nerves is because that makes this more about the fans than it does about education, about teaching young men, about the University as a whole.
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I think that's a great post. Fresh perspective on the team and life in general.
 
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#70
#70
n2motorsports said:
I donate 3 figures and pay almost 4 figures for my season tix. It's a lot of money and I view it as an investment that I'm not getting a good return on. May be time to get it out unless I get something better in return.
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Money talks. Your opinion on this subject deserves respect. You have right to expect better. But no person deserves to have their school win games, merely because they spend money on their school. Their is a difference.
 
#71
#71
royboyvol said:
Wanting to win and saying 'we deserve to' are not the same thing. If you don't get that, then necermind.
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Why do we "deserve" to win?


BECAUSE THIS IS TENNESSEE FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROCKY TOP

R0CKY TOP

ROCKY TOP

ROCKY TOP


BLOW BAMA BLOW!!!!!!!
 
#75
#75
THIS IS TENNESSEE FOOTBALL

WE WIN ITS WHAT WE DO

Wish that I was on ole rocky top,
Down in the tennessee hills.
Ain't no smoggy smoke on rocky top,
Ain't no telephone bills.

Once there was a girl on rocky top,
Half bear the other half cat.
Wild as a mink, sweet as soda pop,
I still dream about that.

Rocky top, you'll always be
Home sweet home to me.
Good ole rocky top,
Rocky top tennessee, rocky top tennessee.

Once two strangers climbed on rocky top,
Lookin' for a moonshine still.
Strangers ain't come back from rocky top,
Guess they never will.

Corn won't grow at all on rocky top,
Dirt's too rocky by far.
That's why all the folks on rocky top
Get their corn from a jar.

Rocky top, you'll always be
Home sweet home to me.
Good ole rocky top,
Rocky top tennessee, rocky top tennessee.

Now I've had years of cramped up city life,
Trapped like a duck in a pen.
Now all I know is it's a pity life
Can't be simple again.

Rocky top, you'll always be
Home sweet home to me.
Good ole rocky top,
Rocky top tennessee, rocky top tennessee.

Rocky top tennessee, rocky top tennessee.
Yeah rocky top tennesee eee eee eee.
 
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