The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

#3
#3
k-town_king said:
Tine for some of you youngins to see the GOAT in action.
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And to see how physical it was, how bad the D was, how little complaining there was, how small the guards and wings were, how tight the spacing is, how slow the pace is, how few 3's there are, etc. It's not even the same game anymore.

The kids are gonna be like "he made 6 totally open 3's against Portland and you think it's an amazing feat and simultaneously the D was great?" It's shocking. The best shooting guard ever seriously got 6 open 3's in one half of a finals.
 
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#4
#4
n_huffhines said:
And to see how physical it was, how bad the D was, how little complaining there was, how small the guards and wings were, how tight the spacing is, how slow the pace is, how few 3's there are, etc. It's not even the same game anymore.

The kids are gonna be like "he made 6 totally open 3's against Portland and you think it's an amazing feat and simultaneously the D was great?" It's shocking. The best shooting guard ever seriously got 6 open 3's in one half of a finals.
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Average height was the same, weight has actually went down. Many of the greatest athletes to play in the NBA were active in the 80s and 90s. You are wrong about the physical attributes. Something the new school guys ignorant of history get wrong all the time. Don't feel bad. Many younger fans do it.
67 Years of Height Evolution in the NBA - In-depth Research

Average Height of An NBA Player - Pro Basketball Troops

The Average Height of NBA Players - From Point Guards to Centers

The Average Height of an NBA Player by Position | Dunk or Three

"The growth was linear (even exponential in the early years) up until the mid-80s, height took a steady 6’7'' average ever since."
" If we take a look at the average height of NBA players during the history of the league we can see that basketball players in 1952 were almost 3 inches smaller than today! After that, players continuously grew taller until the apex was reached in 1987 at 6’7″ tall (201.2cm). Since then there were only slight fluctuations from year to year, but it seems as if a plateau was reached around 6’7″.

By position
PG
"In 1952, point guards were the shortest players in the league with an average height of 6’. A positive increment in the average height was noted as years passed by. The average height peaked at 6’3’’ in 1987. "
SG
"he average height of a shooting guard falls between 6’3’’ and 6’5’’. Back in 1952, a shooting guard’s average height was 6’1’’. The height increased and peaked at 6’5’’ in 2000."
SF
Small forwards kicked off with an average height of 6’4’’ in the 1952-1953 season, and reached a maximum height of 6’8’’ in the 2015-2016 season. On average, a small forward height falls between 6’5’’ and 6’10’’.



Players were also heavier on average. The guards are actually smaller now. Donovan Mitchell and all those under-sized sgs would have gotten killed.

So the guards were not only just as athletic, they also were bigger and heavier. Your whole argument was wrong from the jump.

It was very physical, that makes the guys that were great then stand out so much. They were playing grown men, not a bunch of jump shooting undersized combo guards.

Yes slower pace and less threes, still MJ has the top scoring average ever. Just another testament to his greatness. With today's pace and style of play he averages 45 for a season and probably 35 for his career.

So it was harder to score with bigger guards, yet all of the accolades and stats. Mj truly has no equal and there is no argument anyone can make to compare to him. People better stick to comparing Bird, Kobe , Magic, and Lebron to each other. That is about the only debate there is.
 
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#5
#5
Average weight is up 8 lbs since 1990 and height is down an inch and we got rid of the big slow center who was skewing things in the 90's favor, so that means the guards and wings are way bigger than they were in the 90's. You don't need the stats, all you have to do is look at their bodies. They were skinny.

NBA League Averages - Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

GP was a big, physical PG in the 90's and that's a skinny dude right there. Those aren't even Steph Curry arms.

27224c653b02f65b5ae5c0f49cd81514.jpg
 
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#16
#16
TBrown said:
You have a weird definition of wide open
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5 is the only one that is debatable, but in today's NBA that is definitely "open". If you catch the ball and nobody is within 8 feet of you, you are wide open. It's not like they are running at him, either. They are mostly on their heels. His slow catch and release is what allows 6 to be contested.
 
#18
#18
95 Vol Alum said:
1,4, & 5 are within 8 ft if that’s the metric.
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1 and 4 aren't even contested and I already conceded 5 isn't "wide". I can't believe we have to talk these semantics out so carefully. I'll be sure to include an asterisk on the gif next time that explains "the term 'wide' is subject to interpretation" so we can avoid this nitpicking.
 
#19
#19
n_huffhines said:
1 and 4 aren't even contested and I already conceded 5 isn't "wide". I can't believe we have to talk these semantics out so carefully. I'll be sure to include an asterisk on the gif next time that explains "the term 'wide' is subject to interpretation" so we can avoid this nitpicking.
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Considering how different the game is played, what’s considered a good shot and what defenses were willing to give up in the 90s vs now maybe you just shouldn’t have posted at all
 
#20
#20
TBrown said:
Considering how different the game is played, what’s considered a good shot and what defenses were willing to give up in the 90s vs now maybe you just shouldn’t have posted at all
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It is also well established that the Blazers wanted him taking 3's and played off him on purpose.

I agree overall with Huff's points about that era but this game is not a great example.
 
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#21
#21
TBrown said:
Considering how different the game is played, what’s considered a good shot and what defenses were willing to give up in the 90s vs now maybe you just shouldn’t have posted at all
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Yeah, I was going to make the same point. It's self-fulfilling given the style of play in that era. MJ in particular was a drive to the basket guy so people are naturally inclined to hedge in.

Having said that, it's not like guys today don't get wide open looks either.
 
#22
#22
TBrown said:
Considering how different the game is played, what’s considered a good shot and what defenses were willing to give up in the 90s vs now maybe you just shouldn’t have posted at all
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The game is so different. I agree with that. We'll live with that excuse for the first 1-3 open shots, but once he's hit 3, do you think maybe they might want to step out or nah? There's really no excusing this sequence.
 
#23
#23
95 Vol Alum said:
Yeah, I was going to make the same point. It's self-fulfilling given the style of play in that era. MJ in particular was a drive to the basket guy so people are naturally inclined to hedge in.

Having said that, it's not like guys today don't get wide open looks either.
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Of course guys get open looks, but it's still different. If Curry and Klay combined for 6 wide open 3's in an NBA finals half, the story would be the defensive breakdown. If Curry gets an open look it's probably because it came off a nifty screen or he's bombing from 27'. Jordan's just standing on the 3p line like he's PJ Tucker or something, but he doesn't even have to be in the corner.
 
#24
#24
n_huffhines said:
Of course guys get open looks, but it's still different. If Curry and Klay combined for 6 wide open 3's in an NBA finals half, the story would be the defensive breakdown. If Curry gets an open look it's probably because it came off a nifty screen or he's bombing from 27'. Jordan's just standing on the 3p line like he's PJ Tucker or something, but he doesn't even have to be in the corner.
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Pretty big difference in their 3% and willingness to attempt, huh? No? Okay
 
#25
#25
TBrown said:
Pretty big difference in their 3% and willingness to attempt, huh? No? Okay
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Of course you are going to step out more on Curry but the point is multiple defenders step out harder on Curry at 27' than one defender did on Jordan at 22'. You said it yourself. They had to play 2 yards off Jordan because even with hand checking, they were too slow to stay in front of him.

Let's just go on the record, was the D in the 90's better?
 
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