The future Liberals want

[McDad]

Not American citizens? Absolutely many of the organizers in that group are here on student visas. Legal vs Ilegal...I am not even sure how that is defined at this point....for instance if you lie on your visa application what are you? If you are in fact conected to a terrorist network but do not divulge that what are you? I think your not being really honest on who these people are. and I do not think he was talking about limiting free speech. Let's not be naive.

I do not know the first amendment rights granted to those here on education visas. If restrictions on free speech supporting terrorists groups exist, they should be sent home. Same for making false statements on their Visa app. But I dont know if Visa apps ask about personal support of terrorists groups.

We are making many assumptions here though. I'd prefer to err on the side of protected freedoms no matter how detestable they are.

 

[volbound1700]

I do not know the first amendment rights granted to those here on education visas. If restrictions on free speech supporting terrorists groups exist, they should be sent home. Same for making false statements on their Visa app. But I dont know if Visa apps ask about personal support of terrorists groups.

We are making many assumptions here though. I'd prefer to err on the side of protected freedoms no matter how detestable they are.

They are basically "guests" in our country (we are in the same boat if we travel). The US Government can effectively send them home for anything they deem necessary even without an explanation. They have "no right" to be here.

 

[McDad]

I watched the movie Selma in February on Streaming and loved it (highly recommend).

There is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between those Civil Rights Marches and the riots/protests today.

If these people want to be taken seriously, they would follow the path of heroes at Selma who did it the RIGHT WAY and ACHIEVED what they were asking for.

In what ways is it different now compared to then?

 

[hog88]

They help the chain of funding, just like the IRA, the funding starts here often.....they are a political wing often of Hamas.

"In a statement published after the October 7 invasion, National SJP described Hamas’s massacres of Israelis as “a historic win for Palestinian resistance,” and called for “Not just slogans and rallies, but armed confrontation with the oppressors.” The SJP chapter at the University of Illinois, Chicago, shared a video which shows what appears to be a Hamas terrorist who filmed himself from inside the home of an Israeli family during the attack. Several other SJP chapters have also applauded the Hamas terror attacks. "

I refuse to beleive you're not already aware that these groups like the SJP are financially linked, as well as directed to those organizations.

Why aren't they being prosecuted for providing financial aid to a terrorist organization? I'm pretty sure that is illegal.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

I was to believe those people we're discussing are voicing opinions on American soil and they are either citizens or here legally?

Am I misunderstanding the discussion?

I am all for calling out Hamas, Mossad and Israel alike personally. But these groups in particular are not merely peaceful protestors, and often attack Jewish students on campuses, and are often in fact linked financially to terrorist groups. It's not merely a free speech issue. I am saying that many of these groups are in fact foriegn state actors....if it makes you feel better the CCP influence problem is likely much worse in our political action groups, and less obvious. But you legally as a nation absolutely do have a right to deport forign agents on visas.

 

[volbound1700]

In what ways is it different now compared to then?

Peaceful marches that did NOT resort in violence, block traffic, etc. (Well they were not peaceful but the violent acts were started not by the protesters but the police).

In the Selma March, they didn't MARCH on the road and stop traffic. They were on the sidewalks. The police blocked the road and were the hindrance.

You didn't see them storm campuses, threaten violence, and block the flow of innocent bystanders.

 

[McDad]

They are basically "guests" in our country (we are in the same boat if we travel). The US Government can effectively send them home for anything they deem necessary even without an explanation. They have "no right" to be here.

Aren't you assuming they aren't American citizens?
And also assuming temporary visas do not offer the same protections while a foreign person is living here?

 

[volbound1700]

Aren't you assuming they aren't American citizens?
And also assuming temporary visas do not offer the same protections while a foreign person is living here?

Visas don't offer anything. I have traveled overseas many times. I always remember that I am a "guest" and not privileged to be in their nation.

Visas are basically an additional document that you are required to obtain for certain nations that explains why you are in that nation.

 

[McDad]

I am all for calling out Hamas, Mossad and Israel alike personally. But these groups in particular are not merely peaceful protestors, and often attack Jewish students on campuses, and are often in fact linked financially to terrorist groups. It's not merely a free speech issue. I am saying that many of these groups are in fact foriegn styate actors....if it makes you feel better the CCP influence problem is likely much worse in our political action groups. But you legally as a nation absolutely do have a right to deport forign agents on visas.

You have every right to call out whoever you want.
Attacking Jews in America is a crime. Not protected.
Supporting terrorists financially may be a crime (I dont know) which means not protected.
Foreign state actors' free speech may/or may not be protected...i do not know. Have you proof they are foreign state actors?

 

[McDad]

Visas don't offer anything. I have traveled overseas many times. I always remember that I am a "guest" and not privileged to be in their nation.

Visas are basically an additional document that you are required to obtain for certain nations that explains why you are in that nation.

If that is true for visas in America, then send the rabble rousers back to their home country. No issue for me.

 

[CobbVol]

They help the chain of funding, just like the IRA, the funding starts here often.....they are a political wing often of Hamas.

"In a statement published after the October 7 invasion, National SJP described Hamas’s massacres of Israelis as “a historic win for Palestinian resistance,” and called for “Not just slogans and rallies, but armed confrontation with the oppressors.” The SJP chapter at the University of Illinois, Chicago, shared a video which shows what appears to be a Hamas terrorist who filmed himself from inside the home of an Israeli family during the attack. Several other SJP chapters have also applauded the Hamas terror attacks. "

I refuse to beleive you're not already aware that these groups like the SJP are financially linked, as well as directed to those organizations.

SJP is the group that Desantis deactivated in the Florida university system and unfortunately took heat for doing so.

 

[McDad]

Peaceful marches that did NOT resort in violence, block traffic, etc. (Well they were not peaceful but the violent acts were started not by the protesters but the police).

In the Selma March, they didn't MARCH on the road and stop traffic. They were on the sidewalks. The police blocked the road and were the hindrance.

You didn't see them storm campuses, threaten violence, and block the flow of innocent bystanders.

Were you aware riots, looting, and the like typically followed the peaceful protests? Those were not lead or supported by MLK or his group but they frequently occured.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Were you aware riots, looting, and the like typically followed the peaceful protests? Those were not lead or supported by MLK or his group but they frequently occured.

To be honest I find comparing the civil rights movement and MLK to Hamas pretty offensive...but your free to offend me. But that is a terrible comparison.

 

[McDad]

To be honest I find comparing the civil rights movement and MLK to Hamas pretty offensive...but your free to offend me. But that is a terrible comparison.

I didn't make the comparison. I'm asking volhound if he was aware of some of the destructive behaviors occured then as they do now.

 

[volbound1700]

If that is true for visas in America, then send the rabble rousers back to their home country. No issue for me.

True but it is probably a blend of Citizens and Immigrants to be frank.

Interesting note about the protests from BLM, a lot of the trouble-makers in the protests didn't care about the movement and were just punks taking advantage of the commotion to create problems. There is probably a similar segment in this group.

(I have family members that were police in some of those areas and they said there were basically gangs showing up at the protests to just cause havoc that really didn't care about the cause).

 

[volbound1700]

Were you aware riots, looting, and the like typically followed the peaceful protests? Those were not lead or supported by MLK or his group but they frequently occured.

In many instances, it was caused more by the opposition back then. However, you probably have the same segments with these protests.

I think the another KEY DIFFERENCE is that they MLK Jr's Marches were often in lower-traffic areas that created less friction. A lot of the protests today are literally on interstates, air ports, or urban downtowns and are causing massive problems.

The First Amendment right to assembly (yes, it is to assembly, not protest) does NOT allow a person to block the flow of traffic or hinder the mobility of innocent bystanders.

 

[McDad]

True but it is probably a blend of Citizens and Immigrants to be frank.

Interesting note about the protests from BLM, a lot of the trouble-makers in the protests didn't care about the movement and were just punks taking advantage of the commotion to create problems. There is probably a similar segment in this group.

(I have family members that were police in some of those areas and they said there were basically gangs showing up at the protests to just cause havoc that really didn't care about the cause).

Do the American citizens have a protected right to vocally support Hamas?

The worst I saw of what you're describing was the Rodney King riots. I thought America was headed towards a race war.

 

[McDad]

In many instances, it was caused more by the opposition back then. However, you probably have the same segments with these protests.

I think the another KEY DIFFERENCE is that they MLK Jr's Marches were often in lower-traffic areas that created less friction. A lot of the protests today are literally on interstates, air ports, or urban downtowns and are causing massive problems.

The First Amendment right to assembly (yes, it is to assembly, not protest) does NOT allow a person to block the flow of traffic or hinder the mobility of innocent bystanders.

MLK was incredibly brave. He got death threats all the time. His marches were typically in the south and Southerners have easy access to firearms. But when he led a March he was out in front in the very middle with crowds of people on each side of the street. any one of those people could have had a pistol and gotten to him before anybody could have reacted. That type of Bravery is seldom seen.

 

[volbound1700]

Do the American citizens have a protected right to vocally support Hamas?

The worst I saw of what you're describing was the Rodney King riots. I thought America was headed towards a race war.

Definitely. The key issue is NOT what they are supporting but HOW they are supporting/behaving that is creating the problems.

 

[volbound1700]

MLK was incredibly brave. He got death threats all the time. His marches were typically in the south and Southerners have easy access to firearms. But when he led a March he was out in front in the very middle with crowds of people on each side of the street. any one of those people could have had a pistol and gotten to him before anybody could have reacted. That type of Bravery is seldom seen.

That is why he has (deservingly) his own Holiday in this country .

Frankly, he is probably the most impactful leader in the United States in the second half of the 20th Century.

 

[McDad]

Definitely. The key issue is NOT what they are supporting but HOW they are supporting/behaving that is creating the problems.

I have agreed assault, attacks, and terrorist funding (possibly) are not protected speech.

I'm glad you agree Americans have a protected right to voice their support of things we don't like.

 

[volbound1700]

I have agreed assault, attacks, and terrorist funding (possibly) are not protected speech.

I'm glad you agree Americans have a protected right to voice their support of things we don't like.

It isn't even just what you listed above. I think the place you choose to protest and NOT blocking the flow of traffic is a key element as well.

In Selma, they were on the SIDEWALKS, not the roads (well until the police attacked them).

Seeing protesters out blocking airport runways or interstate flow of traffic is disheartening as this is NOT protected in the Constitution.

You could maybe argue that Civil Rights protests against businesses were wrong but for the most part, they did NOT try to impede people from their day-to-day activities. This is a MAJOR difference between those protests and a lot of these modern leftist protests which tend to be violence and obstructive in nature.

 

[McDad]

It isn't even just what you listed above. I think the place you choose to protest and NOT blocking the flow of traffic is a key element as well.

In Selma, they were on the SIDEWALKS, not the roads (well until the police attacked them).

Seeing protesters out blocking airport runways or interstate flow of traffic is disheartening as this is NOT protected in the Constitution.

You could maybe argue that Civil Rights protests against businesses were wrong but for the most part, they did NOT try to impede people from their day-to-day activities. This is a MAJOR difference between those protests and a lot of these modern leftist protests which tend to be violence and obstructive in nature.

I agree with not blocking traffic.

I thought we were talking about the college kids at Columbia University protesting on the campus.

 

[volbound1700]

I agree with not blocking traffic.

I thought we were talking about the college kids at Columbia University protesting on the campus.

They are apparently blocking the flow of students to class rooms and buildings. Same situation. If they were just on a field away from everyone shouting (which is pretty common for colleges anyways), it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

To be honest as long as it's at Columbia I could care less...let the left eat the left and get a taste of their own medicine. That Frankfurt School college is a disgusting cancer on academia. It is the birthplace of DEI-Woke Anti American crap.