The Contract

[krichunaka]

I have done contract work (electrical) on a small scale. Anything from installing/replacing a bulb, a breaker, a single-pole switch, up to the occasional industrial job where higher voltages, and heavier and very expensive equipment are involved. In the former, it's get in, get out; with the latter, the i's must be dotted and the t's crossed. Of course, the paper-work must be combed through, the insurance payments up to date, on both ends, and so forth; but even in those costlier jobs, there's a mutual reliance on trust, wherein changes, add-ons, etc., are handled over a cup of coffee. Simple as that. However, this is not to sound naive, because even in the best of circumstances one can get burned, literally or figuratively: I was at Lawrence Livermore Labs (1986) when a ground-short protest by a young subordinate was overruled by the high-voltage supervisor, who opted for expedience, and ordered the re-start. The resulting explosion literally blew the reinforced concrete roof off that building, and started multiple electrical fires down the line. True story.
So, do a good job, and, by all means, Read The Fine Print!
__________________________________________________________________________________

I was one of the happy fans when Kellie Jolly Harper was hired. She got the job, she did her best. Her best, regardless of a seemingly continuous run of injuries and bad luck in general, wasn't deemed good enough. I can live with that.
And, apparently, at season's end last year there was a meeting with the boss. This is where I believe that the fine print, million-dollars-plus dilemma that the Harpers are now experiencing, began. Which goes without saying, to me at least, that this was when our beloved Coach Kellie was officially put on the hot seat. Because, why would anyone in her right mind have otherwise agreed to such a contract? Or ultimatum? So, while I await the "that's just the way contracts are written" - - - "It's just standard contractual language" lecture, I have a question:

Who is Kellie's agent?

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Agree it was a not a good deal for her buyout to drop by half April 1 so just wondering maybe she wasn't given a choice. Sign it or go home. Agree that should of let her know she was on the hot seat because White didn't forget that clause in the contract.

 

[Ratvol]

It could have been a condition for the extension and raise she got earlier. There are a lot of IF/THEN clauses in contracts. Of course, they could have had this conversation much earlier that we think.
At this point, it's all speculation. either way, she's gone and a newby is coming in. Hope they read the fineprint.

 

[mudcat1973]

It could have been a condition for the extension and raise she got earlier. There are a lot of IF/THEN clauses in contracts. Of course, they could have had this conversation much earlier that we think.
At this point, it's all speculation. either way, she's gone and a newby is coming in. Hope they read the fineprint.

Smart coach might better contact guarante
Before coming if they have a decent job now

 

[mudcat1973]

Agree it was a not a good deal for her buyout to drop by half April 1 so just wondering maybe she wasn't given a choice. Sign it or go home. Agree that should of let her know she was on the hot seat because White didn't forget that clause in the contract.

First time I recall a buyout option like tHis
Can anyone name a sport at Tennesse where this happen before
AnD proof in the media

 

[Volfaninfl2]

I doubt Kellie would do anything, but doesn’t the school have to provide the Coach with everything they need to be successful? Knowing that the AD (White?) has already lined up money (from Spyre?) for the next Coach to use in bidding for recruits, but did not do this for Kellie and her staff, and then fires her for whatever reasons, when they lost games possibly in part, because they were unable to sign the best recruits?

People here have said that donors did specifically not want to back Kellie, but this lack of recruiting support has been going on for years, two years when we went to the Sweet Sixteen, way before the devastasting “loss” to SC.

The difference in recruiting support then versus now is a very bad look for the AD, and seems extremely unfair to Kellie and her staff, as well as detrimental to their ability to succeed.

I suppose someone will say they had nothing to do with all of that. Anyone really believe that?

 

[Volfan2012]

I doubt Kellie would do anything, but doesn’t the school have to provide the Coach with everything they need to be successful? Knowing that the AD (White?) has already lined up money (from Spyre?) for the next Coach to use in bidding for recruits, but did not do this for Kellie and her staff, and then fires her for whatever reasons, when they lost games possibly in part, because they were unable to sign the best recruits?

People here have said that donors did specifically not want to back Kellie, but this lack of recruiting support has been going on for years, two years when we went to the Sweet Sixteen, way before the devastasting “loss” to SC.

I heard he tried hard to do it and was denied. That is what was going around and being repeated. Said donors with the big money wanted a change to provide backing so we'll find out soon if this is true.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

I heard he tried hard to do it and was denied. That is what was going around and being repeated. Said donors with the big money wanted a change to provide backing so we'll find out soon if this is true.

You’re quick, I added to my post, please read. Those denials were supposedly this year, what about the earlier years?

 

[Volfan2012]

You’re quick, I added to my post, please read. Those denials were supposedly this year, what about the earlier years?

Before NIL I guess could be the reason she couldn't get support now. Before NIL it should've been a level playing field and we were still not getting anyone. I blame the Assistants we had then and covid, but she hired those Assistants so that has to be on her. Whatever the reason it is going to take players we all know that so hope is the new coach will have full support that she may have never had.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Before NIL I guess could be the reason she couldn't get support now. Before NIL it should've been a level playing field and we were still not getting anyone. I blame the Assistants we had then and covid, but she hired those Assistants so that has to be on her. Whatever the reason it is going to take players we all know that so hope is the new coach will have full support that she may have never had.

Spyre has been around for years for the football program, and Nico in particular. The difference now is that they have finally added the Womens’ Basketball program.

 

[Volfan2012]

Spyre has been around for years for the football program, and Nico in particular. The difference now is that they have finally added the Womens’ Basketball program.

They probably added women cause someone with money was willing to donate some for the women's program and were not willing when Kellie was coach. We want ever know why we'll just know if the next coach gets results or not in recruiting players. With the ability to now legally make deals with high school players if the money it there then we should see results.

 

[chuckiepoo]

First time I recall a buyout option like tHis
Can anyone name a sport at Tennesse where this happen before
AnD proof in the media

Doesn’t matter. DW doesn’t sit down to play checkers…

He’s a lawyer, from a family of ADs and is plugged into a network of coaching agents.

Like any good lawyer, he knows the answer, before he asks the question… but that requires a little faith and patience. Makes for a slow day at the LV forum…

 

[mudcat1973]

Doesn’t matter. DW doesn’t sit down to play checkers…

He’s a lawyer, from a family of ADs and is plugged into a network of coaching agents.

Like any good lawyer, he knows the answer, before he asks the question… but that requires a little faith and patience. Makes for a slow day at the LV forum…

He might be playing chess.
Bet agents around the country saw that buyout.
I would If was a agent tell Danny White I want a five year buyout guarantee
With no future discounts lock in.
Wonder if this contact buyout discount has happened some where else?

 

[chuckiepoo]

He might be playing chess.
Bet agents around the country saw that buyout.
I would If was a agent tell Danny White I want a five year buyout guarantee
With no future discounts lock in.
Wonder if this contact buyout discount has happened some where else?

There are lawyers on both sides of this contract, for sure. I love cheering for Justin Verlander but Scott Boras is his agent. His players don’t come cheap. That’s MLB though.

Not sure who would be a good comp. I know “The Kraken” of college football agents is Jimmy Sexton. He’s alumni, and I’d bet he handled Vitello’s contract. Just guessing there.

 

[Majors]

I doubt Kellie would do anything, but doesn’t the school have to provide the Coach with everything they need to be successful? Knowing that the AD (White?) has already lined up money (from Spyre?) for the next Coach to use in bidding for recruits, but did not do this for Kellie and her staff, and then fires her for whatever reasons, when they lost games possibly in part, because they were unable to sign the best recruits?

People here have said that donors did specifically not want to back Kellie, but this lack of recruiting support has been going on for years, two years when we went to the Sweet Sixteen, way before the devastasting “loss” to SC.

The difference in recruiting support then versus now is a very bad look for the AD, and seems extremely unfair to Kellie and her staff, as well as detrimental to their ability to succeed.

I suppose someone will say they had nothing to do with all of that. Anyone really believe that?

She had everything from day 1 to be successful when Fulmer hired her. NIL was only an excuse when everything else was used up. She was 12-37 in her games vs ranked opponents. That to big donors does not scream wise investment.

 

[DaddyChad]

I doubt Kellie would do anything, but doesn’t the school have to provide the Coach with everything they need to be successful? Knowing that the AD (White?) has already lined up money (from Spyre?) for the next Coach to use in bidding for recruits, but did not do this for Kellie and her staff, and then fires her for whatever reasons, when they lost games possibly in part, because they were unable to sign the best recruits?

People here have said that donors did specifically not want to back Kellie, but this lack of recruiting support has been going on for years, two years when we went to the Sweet Sixteen, way before the devastasting “loss” to SC.

The difference in recruiting support then versus now is a very bad look for the AD, and seems extremely unfair to Kellie and her staff, as well as detrimental to their ability to succeed.

I suppose someone will say they had nothing to do with all of that. Anyone really believe that?

Just so we’re clear you’re saying Danny wanted Kelly to fail? Perhaps those providing the NIL dollars didn’t want to put them behind Kelly, I find that much more likely than Danny trying to sabotage her.

 

[DeerPark12]

She had everything from day 1 to be successful when Fulmer hired her. NIL was only an excuse when everything else was used up. She was 12-37 in her games vs ranked opponents. That to big donors does not scream wise investment.

You can view as an excuse or not, but the reality was that they were consistently outbid the last two years for high school players. Do you think it’s just a coincidence that Tennessee finished in the top two or three for seven different players the last two years?

 

[Tman44]

I think there is a point that is being missed. I would believe the 2023 recruiting class was a major red flag. I'll miss seeing Kelly. I wish her, Jon and their children the best. I hope for her to have one of those "when one door closes, others open" scenarios.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Just so we’re clear you’re saying Danny wanted Kelly to fail? Perhaps those providing the NIL dollars didn’t want to put them behind Kelly, I find that much more likely than Danny trying to sabotage her.

I think White had his mind on getting funds from Spyre to the male athletes in football, basketball, and baseball, and failed to realize women’s sports, basketball in particular, needed large funds to compete with other schools, so we lost out on recruits.

He has finally added the women’s basketball program to Spyre.

 

[DaddyChad]

I think White had his mind on getting funds from Spyre to the male athletes in football, basketball, and baseball, and failed to realize women’s sports, basketball in particular, needed large funds to compete with other schools, so we lost out on recruits.

He has finally added the women’s basketball program to Spyre.

Only fairly recently were universities allowed to have any input into what collectives were doing. It was for a long time a completely separate entity which the university could have no influence on.

 

[Majors]

You can view as an excuse or not, but the reality was that they were consistently outbid the last two years for high school players. Do you think it’s just a coincidence that Tennessee finished in the top two or three for seven different players the last two years?

Reality is she didn’t win on the front end enough. Winning cures all. Don’t go 12-37 over five years and you get support needed. Can’t ask for more if you can’t win with less. She wasn’t known as an elite recruiter prior and she didn’t come to Tennessee from a better program. She did all she could but was in over her head. That’s reality.

Sense you said it, who were the players we lost and what did we bid vs the other teams. Give the board true numbers to know the gap if we have one.

 

[glv98]

You can view as an excuse or not, but the reality was that they were consistently outbid the last two years for high school players. Do you think it’s just a coincidence that Tennessee finished in the top two or three for seven different players the last two years?

We're all trying to figure out why the freeze out of NIL funds the last couple of years and why/how did they unlock just as Kellie was getting fired? Another 'insider' poster said the lack of funds were due to LVBHC, not the AD. Agree?

While it's very confusing, I always thought the strongest argument for lack of NIL funding was how often we got so close with major high school recruits, had them visiting over and over, then lost them at the last minute. Latest example was the kid (Williams?) whose family practical moved into Kellie's office until she suddenly went to Oregon of all places.

 

[DeerPark12]

We're all trying to figure out why the freeze out of NIL funds the last couple of years and why/how did they unlock just as Kellie was getting fired? Another 'insider' poster said the lack of funds were due to LVBHC, not the AD. Agree?

While it's very confusing, I always thought the strongest argument for lack of NIL funding was how often we got so close with major high school recruits, had them visiting over and over, then lost them at the last minute. Latest example was the kid (Williams?) whose family practical moved into Kellie's office until she suddenly went to Oregon of all places.

As has been stated several other places, the NIL situation has been very good as far as retaining players or even getting them out of the portal. You just haven’t had very many boosters with deep pockets willing to give it to a high school kid. Supposedly there are now commitments to change that. If not, the next coach won’t have success either.

 

[glv98]

As has been stated several other places, the NIL situation has been very good as far as retaining players or even getting them out of the portal. You just haven’t had very many boosters with deep pockets willing to give it to a high school kid. Supposedly there are now commitments to change that. If not, the next coach won’t have success either.

Thanks. Still leaves me wondering about the coincidence of timing of the change in willingness and the coaching change. Just ashamed it couldn't have happened sooner.

 

[DeerPark12]

Reality is she didn’t win on the front end enough. Winning cures all. Don’t go 12-37 over five years and you get support needed. Can’t ask for more if you can’t win with less. She wasn’t known as an elite recruiter prior and she didn’t come to Tennessee from a better program. She did all she could but was in over her head. That’s reality.

Sense you said it, who were the players we lost and what did we bid vs the other teams. Give the board true numbers to know the gap if we have one.

I’m sorry, we’re just going have to disagree here. Winning does not cure all in the modern era of recruiting. Look at some of the schools that top players have gone to in almost every sport, they aren’t all winning at a high-level and never would’ve considered some of those schools before NIL became a thing.

I’m not going to name names, that’s not fair to anybody. But I will say there are players on the rosters at LSU, Louisville, USC and Texas that received first year NIL guarantees the last two years that were higher than the total for Tennessee’s entire team, outside of Rickea. And if you check some of those names, you’ll see that Tennessee was in their final 2-4 schools.