Tennessee Lady Vol News

[Orange007]

What is it with him and this program? Was he around when Pat was? If so, was he this doom and gloom?!

this man is a total dumbass. he really has no clue. please retire.
i will also bet that he has permanently made his bed with the coach. she doesn't strike me as a fake person at all.

 

[Dak1219]

this man is a total dumbass. he really has no clue. please retire.
i will also bet that he has permanently made his bed with the coach. she doesn't strike me as a fake person at all.

Calhoun is one of the worst opinion writers I have ever read. He doesn't know how to research a topic he is writing on, nor write complete paragraphs when trying to do so, and has never learned how to use spell check because his articles are always a mess. Then you have Adams, the Worst clickbait writer in Knoxville. Neither of them should be allowed to write for a local publication (especially about women's basketball anyway) and worse yet, to hear & see their interview says it all. Adams looks like he is coming off a 3-day drunk. Both are trashy writers...

 

[Volfan2012]

This sounds and looks like the Arkansas model. My hope is the new-look LVs will rebound, both offensively and defensively, better than Arkansas. If so, the LVs will squeeze out even more possessions. GBO.

Has to be the model with rebounding for sure. Non rebounding teams are not going to win anything in the SEC. Rebounding seemed to be important and they could get to the free throw line. They had trouble making them sometimes.

Marshall 91-88 Florida (Dec 2, 2023) Box Score - ESPN Should've won this game at Florida going away and only won by three missed 16 free throws. Made 13 of 33 three point attempts. Overall looks like 84 chances to score and they got 91 points out of it. 1.08 Marshall way below the 1.20 you would like to see on your possessions. if they had been that efficient they would've scored 101 and beat Florida by 13. Florida 72 for 88 for 1.22 what you like to see, but not enough chances minus 12 and they lost by three to a far less efficient team.

 

[volnationnj]

Technically, you're 100% correct. The problem is the numbers don't account for the human instinct. If I gain control of the game tempo, I can speed u up naturally. You might not turn it over when I press, but I can still get you to speed up. You're not running 40 seconds off the clock if I full court press. A good defensive coach will likely have some sort of trap once u cross half court. You simply muddy the game up and teams will speed up, because it's the right thing to do if you can hit the wide open player

My post only addressed the concept of quicker shots leading to more possessions than the opposition (they don't) and nothing else. I even specified that turnovers, fouls and rebounds were even, in the example that I used.

 

[volnationnj]

You do when you have 10 steals more and 6 fewer turn overs per game than the team you are playing.

Was this response intended for me ?
The last sentence in my post was "You get them, principally, by being more effective in creating turnovers, and out rebounding your opponent".

 

[Volfan2012]

This analysis is inaccurate, conceptually.
Follow me on this. I know this is outside the rules as far as the possession clock goes, but the principal stands. If one team took a shot every 20 seconds and the opposition took one every 40 seconds, the following will happen. ( I know it's outside the rules, but I'm using 20 and 40 to illustrate my point and it's a convenient number).
So each team takes 1 shot per minute. Providing turnovers, fouls and rebounds are equal, both teams will take the SAME amount of shots for the game.
(10 shots per 10 minute quarter, 40 shots per game). The only difference is one team takes twice as long before they shoot the ball.
You don't get more shots than your opposition by shooting quickly. You get them principally by being more effective in creating turnovers and out rebounding your opponent.

It is right for the reason that you can't wait 40 seconds to take a shot. If you shoot the ball in 20 and the other team takes 27 how can you not get more shots up in a game? Because they can't take a full 30 and certainly can't take 40. So you shoot in 20 they shoot in 27 plus 13 seconds every minute. 15 shots in five minutes. 11 times 27 is 5 minutes. 11 shots for them in a quarter. So you've taken four more shots in a quarter. Will be some variables, but the idea is to win the shots taken by clock management, turnovers, rebounding, free throws. Plus you have to be efficient to some degree. Marshall got 82 chances to score against Wake Forrest and only scored 59 points so you still need a team that can go for close to 1.20 points per opportunity to score to be successful most of the time. 82 chances to score versus Va Tech for 49 points. You have to take advantage and they did more than they didn't, but for that bad team it was a concept that won them 27 games.

 

[volnationnj]

So how does CKC’s teams, who had a negative rebounding number last year, coupled with a plus 8 turnover margin get something like 20 more possessions and sometimes more than 20+ shots a game over their opponents? That was my initial question…they do it though so there has to be an answer.

They might be some confusion in terminology here. Are you using possessions and field goals attempted synonymously ? They're not the same
I assume you're using the ESPN team differential statistics.
Which has fga (field goals attempted) but doesn't have a stat for possessions at all. Is there another website that has the statistic for possessions per 40 minutes ? If so, I would be thankful if you could direct me to it.

 

[volnationnj]

It is right for the reason that you can't wait 40 seconds to take a shot. If you shoot the ball in 20 and the other team takes 27 how can you not get more shots up in a game? Because they can't take a full 30 and certainly can't take 40. So you shoot in 20 they shoot in 27 plus 13 seconds every minute. 15 shots in five minutes. 11 times 27 is 5 minutes. 11 shots for them in a quarter. So you've taken four more shots in a quarter. Will be some variables, but the idea is to win the shots taken by clock management, turnovers, rebounding, free throws. Plus you have to be efficient to some degree. Marshall got 82 chances to score against Wake Forrest and only scored 59 points so you still need a team that can go for close to 1.20 points per opportunity to score to be successful most of the time. 82 chances to score versus Va Tech for 49 points. You have to take advantage and they did more than they didn't, but for that bad team it was a concept that won them 27 games.

The amount of time you take to shoot the ball has no relationship to taking more shots than your OPPONENT IN A GAME.
If one team takes 15 seconds, on average, before they shoot the ball, and their opponent takes 20 seconds before they shoot, they will still have the same amount of possessions at the end of the game (Providing other factors like rebounding are equal).
Look at it this way. Let's say I shoot after 15 seconds, and make the shot. My opponent now gets the ball. If they take 20 seconds and make the shot, I get the ball. This pattern keeps on repeating and the possessions are equal.
If I get more offensive rebounds than my opponent, that will give me more possessions. If I force more turnovers than my opponent, that will give me more opportunities for more field goal attempts. But not more possessions than my opponent.
(They had possession before I stole the ball, and will have possession after I make the shot).
Let's say my team, in season 2022-23, took a shot every 20 seconds. Then in season 2023-24, I decided to up the tempo to taking a shot every 15 seconds.
In all likelihood, the 23-24 team will have more possessions per game than the 22-23 team. But that would not be a factor in getting more possessions, per game, THAN MY OPPONENT in either year. The faster you shoot the ball, the faster your opponent gets possession (Not counting factors like rebounding).

 

[Volfan2012]

The amount of time you take to shoot the ball has no relationship to taking more shots than your OPPONENT IN A GAME.
If one team takes 15 seconds, on average, before they shoot the ball, and their opponent takes 20 seconds before they shoot, they will still have the same amount of possessions at the end of the game (Providing other factors like rebounding are equal).
Look at it this way. Let's say I shoot after 15 seconds, and make the shot. My opponent now gets the ball. If they take 20 seconds and make the shot, I get the ball. This pattern keeps on repeating and the possessions are equal.
If I get more offensive rebounds than my opponent, that will give me more possessions. If I force more turnovers than my opponent, that will give me more opportunities for more field goal attempts. But not more possessions than my opponent.
(They had possession before I stole the ball, and will have possession after I make the shot).
Let's say my team, in season 2022-23, took a shot every 20 seconds. Then in season 2023-24, I decided to up the tempo to taking a shot every 15 seconds.
In all likelihood, the 23-24 team will have more possessions per game than the 22-23 team. But that would not be a factor in getting more possessions, per game, THAN MY OPPONENT in either year. The faster you shoot the ball, the faster your opponent gets possession (Not counting factors like rebounding).

The time you take does sorry but your wrong. A team shooting it in 20 seconds and a team shooting it in 27 will not have take the same amount of shots in a forty minute game if they continued that sequence. Of course there are other variables, but no way you can get equal amount of shots if one team is taking a shot every 20 seconds and another 27. Easy to see that there is 10 minutes in a quarter and easy to see that 20 seconds times five minutes would be 15 shots. Easy to see 27 seconds time 11 is another five minutes but is only 11 shots. The team that is shooting it 20 would get four more shots in this scenario.

 

[Volfan2012]

Because of the time limit in a quarter anyone can see that in a 10 minute quarter the team taking a shot every 20 seconds would take more shots than the team taking one every 27 seconds. If you can't see the logic in that then you need to go back to math class. Both possessing the ball equal possessions it would be easy to see that the team taking a shot every 20 seconds would take 15 shots in their five minutes and the other team would only take 11, Case closed.

 

[volbeast33]

I actually watch that earlier and decided not to post it.

that is always the correct choice when it comes to dave hooker and John Adams.

 

[volnationnj]

Because of the time limit in a quarter anyone can see that in a 10 minute quarter the team taking a shot every 20 seconds would take more shots than the team taking one every 27 seconds. If you can't see the logic in that then you need to go back to math class. Both possessing the ball equal possessions it would be easy to see that the team taking a shot every 20 seconds would take 15 shots in their five minutes and the other team would only take 11, Case closed.

You missed the concept entirely. Please reread my post #10,158. I even capitalized THAN YOU OPPONENT in a game, to emphasize the point. I even went so far as to give an example of a team, in different years, of shortening their time before shooting from 20 seconds to 15 seconds. Taking the quicker shot would, in all likelihood, result in more possessions per game, for that year's team when compared to their other year. But, that has nothing to do with getting more possessions THAN YOUR OPPONENT in any given game.
In general, not counting factors like rebounding, If you shoot the ball quicker, your opponent has the ball sooner. So they get more possessions too. It's comparative between you and your opponent.
It's not between 2 teams NOT playing each other. Where if one shot every 15 seconds and the other every 20 seconds, you would expect the team shooting every 15 seconds to get more possessions in a game. Yes, I agree with that, as long as they're not playing each other. The faster pace means more possessions for each team.
Finally, I didn't appreciate your remark about going back to math class. I can assure you that math abilities are more than adequate for this discussion.

 

[Volfan2012]

You missed the concept entirely. Please reread my post #10,158. I even capitalized THAN YOU OPPONENT in a game, to emphasize the point. I even went so far as to give an example of a team, in different years, of shortening their time before shooting from 20 seconds to 15 seconds. Taking the quicker shot would, in all likelihood, result in more possessions per game, for that year's team when compared to their other year. But, that has nothing to do with getting more possessions THAN YOUR OPPONENT in any given game.
In general, not counting factors like rebounding, If you shoot the ball quicker, your opponent has the ball sooner. So they get more possessions too. It's comparative between you and your opponent.
It's not between 2 teams NOT playing each other. Where if one shot every 15 seconds and the other every 20 seconds, you would expect the team shooting every 15 seconds to get more possessions in a game. Yes, I agree with that, as long as they're not playing each other. The faster pace means more possessions for each team.
Finally, I didn't appreciate your remark about going back to math class. I can assure you that math abilities are more than adequate for this discussion.

Possessions don't matter if your not shooting the ball. The point is scoring points and actually shooting the ball is a possession cause you can have all the possessions you want, but if you are not shooting it your not scoring. So the whole concept is shots and that is where the difference lies. I will gladly take 15 shots a quarter and give you 11 even if the possessions are equal cause I have given my self for more opportunities to score. If I am shooting it 60 using 20 seconds and your shooting it 44 using 27 seconds I have 16 more shots to score and well possessions can be equal if you want them to, but that still doesn't mean you have the other 16 chances to score and that is the main point. I'd gladly give you 20 more possessions a game if you are not shooting the ball. I don't care about possession I care about shots taken or opportunites to score.

Well your not understanding the concept of shooting versus possessions so why would I think your math is adequate in this discussion.

 

[volnationnj]

Because of the time limit in a quarter anyone can see that in a 10 minute quarter the team taking a shot every 20 seconds would take more shots than the team taking one every 27 seconds. If you can't see the logic in that then you need to go back to math class. Both possessing the ball equal possessions it would be easy to see that the team taking a shot every 20 seconds would take 15 shots in their five minutes and the other team would only take 11, Case closed.

Case is closed, but not in the direction you think.
Look at it this way, Team A vs Team B.
Team A takes a shot once every 10 seconds, and everyone of them is a layup, so they shoot 100%.
Team B takes a shot once every 20 seconds, and everyone of them is a layup, so they also shoot 100%.
Team A takes and makes 2 shots a minute, 80 shots and makes for the game. Team B takes and makes 2 shots per minute, 80 shots and makes per game. The same amount of possessions and shots for the game.
Let's try this.
Team A (from above) is playing team C (who takes a shot every 15 seconds).
Team B (from above) is playing Team D (who takes a shot every 25 seconds).
Teams A and C will take more shots in their game than teams B and D will in theirs (all other factors being equal) because they're playing at a faster pace.
But that faster pace is not a factor, within the same game, as to which team will get more possessions than the their opponent. If you want to discuss the difference between possessions and field goals attempted, that will bring in a whole set of variables that don't apply to the original discussion.

 

[Majors]

One of the reasons I'm so worried about 3 pt shooting (other than Jewel and Sara) is that getting in a rhythm will likely not be a feature of the new system with frequent subbing.

I’d be worried about Jewel missing in games. Too many times last season she was single digits or 0.

 

[Volfan2012]

Case is closed, but not in the direction you think.
Look at it this way, Team vs Team B.
Team A takes a shot once every 10 seconds, and everyone of them is a layup, so they shoot 100%.
Team B takes a shot once every 20 seconds, and everyone of them is a layup, so they also shoot 100%.
Team A takes and makes 2 shots a minute, 80 shots and makes for the game. Team B takes and makes 2 shots per minute, 80 shots and makes per game. The same amount of possessions and shots for the game.
Let's try this.
Team A (from above) is playing team C (who takes a shot every 15 seconds).
Team B (from above) is playing Team D (who takes a shot every 25 seconds).
Teams A and C will take more shots in their game than teams B and D will in theirs (all other factors being equal) because they're playing at a faster pace.
But that faster pace is not a factor, within the same game, as to which team will get more possessions than the their opponent.

I care about shots and a team taking a shot every 20 seconds shoots the ball more in a 40 minute game than a team taking a shot every 27 seconds. That is not hard to understand. It would come out to 60 shots versus 44 shots in a 40 minute game. I am talking about two teams playing each other. Even if they both had the ball 20 minutes which this accepts as a factor one is shooting it 60 times and the other 44 in a 40 minute game. Plus the faster shooting pace has to be a factor cause your shooting it in 20 and they are taking 27 so that faster shooting pace gives you 16 more shots in a game.

 

[volnationnj]

I care about shots and a team taking a shot every 20 seconds shoots the ball more in a 40 minute game than a team taking a shot every 27 seconds. That is not hard to understand. It would come out to 60 shots versus 44 shots in a 40 minute game. I am talking about two teams playing each other. Even if they both had the ball 20 minutes which this accepts as a factor one is shooting it 60 times and the other 44 in a 40 minute game. Plus the faster shooting pace has to be a factor cause your shooting it in 20 and they are taking 27 so that faster shooting pace gives you 16 more shots in a game.

Your premise is inaccurate. If one team has possession for 20 seconds before shooting and their opponent has the ball for 27 seconds before shooting, not counting other factors, they wouldn't both have the ball for 20 minutes in the game. The team that shot every 27 seconds would have the ball for 7 seconds longer each possession. After 40 possessions that team would have the ball for 4 minutes and 40 seconds longer. They wouldn't posses the ball an equal amount of time. But, barring other factors, they would have the same amount of possessions !!

 

[glv98]

The fact that the 'system' is this hard to explain and to understand says it all. Too clever by half, and the reason almost no one uses it. When you ask for examples, folks immediately go back 30 yrs to Arkansas men or Pitino or partial use like Arky women offense (which in itself should kill the idea) or Auburn defense. Faster pace, a spread floor, and a harassing D are great, and the aim of many teams. But throwing up a prayer just bc 20 secs have passed is not great. For God's sake, just work for, take, and make good shots.

I’d be worried about Jewel missing in games. Too many times last season she was single digits or 0.

Believe it or not, I was trying to be positive about that. At least both Jewel and Sara have decent percentages. But of course I'm worried about it, esp since Jewel's about to get RIckea level defensive attention. That's also exactly why I get so cranky when we keep stacking players with poor percentages. Not landing Nye, or any other proven 3 pt sniper, was a blow.

I believe the coaches did the best they could in this area, signed the best they could get. But no question, as a 30 3 pt shot per game team, we're living on a prayer.

 

[Volfan2012]

Your premise is inaccurate. If one team has possession for 20 seconds before shooting and their opponent has the ball for 27 seconds before shooting, not counting other factors, they wouldn't both have the ball for 20 minutes in the game. The team that shot every 27 seconds would have the ball for 7 seconds longer each possession. After 40 possessions that team would have the ball for 4 minutes and 40 seconds longer. They wouldn't posses the ball an equal amount of time. But, barring other factors, they would have the same amount of possessions !!

I agree the entire point is the team shooting it in 20 seconds gets 16 more shots per game. I don't care about possessions. time of possession, etc only how many times I have a chance to score. The new coach plays a 24 second clock and tries to get the opponent to play a 30 second clock. This results is more opportunities to score and that is the entire point nothing else matters. This is how she creates more opportunities to score more than any other variable. She wants to win the turnovers and rebounding but that didn't happen that often at Marshall. They only had a plus three turn over advantage and a minus one in rebounding. They got up 2371 shots to their opponents 1971..

2023-24 Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics

The official 2023-24 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for the Marshall University The Herd

herdzone.com

This was mostly done using the shot clock.

 

[glv98]

Doesn't the fact Adams blamed everything on Kellie and the players she recruited make ya'll feel better?

 

[Volfan2012]

Doesn't the fact Adams blamed everything on Kellie and the players she recruited make ya'll feel better?

I thought we had more talent than every SEC team except two. She was overly ambitious in her non conference scheduling which usually found us needing to fight for our life when the SEC season rolled around. No SEC team excepting two were winning more conference games, but they were stacking up the wins in the non conference playing teams they knew they could beat. So you could say we were third in talent in the SEC and that is not acceptable at Tennessee.
We may be fifth or sixth in talent in this coming season and so the non conference will be a factor cause again 10 SEC wins is probably going to be the high mark unless this system somehow proves to make a difference.

 

[House|RockyTop]

Folks we have several coaches on this board and in this thread .....man what basketball knowledge is on display....

I’m really looking forward to this season with the returnees, the new staff, and new players.

Very impressed with the player’s commitment to working relentlessly this off-season to improve.

The coaches ability to manage both the returnees and new additions.

This forum is pure fiction in my eyes.
On the bright side, the forum coaches reality does not make it further than their keyboard and/or cellphone.

 

[knoxvol52]

I’m really looking forward to this season with the returnees, the new staff, and new players.

Very impressed with the player’s commitment to working Rufus off-season to improve.

The coaches ability to manage both the returnees and new additions.

This forum is pure fiction in my eyes.
On the bright side, the forum coaches reality does not make it further than their keyboard and/or cellphone.

Everybody is a armchair coach in every sport they follow, come on man...

 

[volbeast33]

The fact that the 'system' is this hard to explain and to understand says it all. Too clever by half, and the reason almost no one uses it. When you ask for examples, folks immediately go back 30 yrs to Arkansas men or Pitino or partial use like Arky women offense (which in itself should kill the idea) or Auburn defense. Faster pace, a spread floor, and a harassing D are great, and the aim of many teams. But throwing up a prayer just bc 20 secs have passed is not great. For God's sake, just work for, take, and make good shots.

Believe it or not, I was trying to be positive about that. At least both Jewel and Sara have decent percentages. But of course I'm worried about it, esp since Jewel's about to get RIckea level defensive attention. That's also exactly why I get so cranky when we keep stacking players with poor percentages. Not landing Nye, or any other proven 3 pt sniper, was a blow.

I believe the coaches did the best they could in this area, signed the best they could get. But no question, as a 30 3 pt shot per game team, we're living on a prayer.

I don’t agree with this at all….Arkansas does not run a similar offense to us… we do not intend to just jack up bad shots for the sake of shooting.Here are the only facts that we have to go on:

1. She improved several players 3 point percentage in one year.
2. In one year at Marshall… her team improved to 43% FG, 34% 3pt% from 40% FG, and 30% 3pt% the year before.
3. She was picked to finish 9th and lost her best player after 6 games.
4. She improved at Marshall from 17-14 9-9 in conference to 26-7 17-1 in conference.
5. At Glenville State…. she went 33-3 her last year and the team fell to 18-11 without her.
6. The year before she got there… Glenville State went 17-12 and improved to 24-6 in her first year.

The challenge gets tougher but she has proven she can coach. She will be running a sped up pro offense where she will play 5 out to open up the middle trying to get the three most efficient shots… 3pt… FT…. and lay ups…. We probably see many mid range shots in this offense. Go Lady Vols!

 

[House|RockyTop]

Everybody is a armchair coach in every sport they follow, come on man...

Who said anything about that? I’m talking about what others and I see on this forum.

And I notice lately someone is changing/ adding words in my post.. who could do that other than a moderator?