Targeting Hit KO’s JG, No Flag

#101
#101
midtnvol2 said:
Im a 7 year TSSAA official and I have been taught this on the HS level with multiple trainings with videos breaking down targeting and non targeting hits. So I have a lot more than a damn clue! How much training have you had? I would guess none. You can't pull one or two elements of the rule and make it targeting. He was hit in his chest, not the head or neck! The rule was put into place to prevent concussions from hits to the head! If I Was on the field no targeting on JG. On Tyler Byrd's hit early in the second half, that was targeting and should have been called. In HS I'd throw that flag all day long and have at least a dozen times in the past year. Byrd was defenseless, the defender had room to avoid him but continued and threw a hard forearm into the side of Byrd's head. That meets all elements of the rule! If you don't have contact above the shoulders it isn't going to be called. Thats why Moseley's hit on the KY WR in KY was overturned to no targeting because he hit him in the shoulder not the head or neck! But please continue to see what you want to see. Where is your outrage for Byrd or is it just for JG???
Click to expand...

The targeting rule DOES NOT REQUIRE ALL ELEMENTS of those four bullet points combined to be targeting. A single bullet point can require multiple elements but all four bullet points are individual infractions per bullet point. If all elements of each bullet point are satisfied, targeting has occurred. The fourth bullet point has two elements, 1)Lowering the head, and 2) initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet. You do also realize there are many differences in the rules at the high school and college level, correct? Here is the actual relavent sections of the rule versus just the abbreviated post you made with four bullet points.

"Targeting and Making Forcible Contact
With the Crown of the Helmet
ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of the helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul."

Skipping to the Note 1 to include one indicator of targeting. The last listed indicator reads:

"Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet"

Those quotes are directly from the 2019 NCAA Football Rule Book. (Actually a PDF instead of a book)

The video evidence is absolutely clear Article 3 takes place along with the required element of lowering the head listed in Note 1.

Proclaiming expertise on NCAA Football Rules by declaring experience as a TSSAA football official is the equivalent of declaring experience officiating in the CFL makes one an expert at NFL rules.
 
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#102
#102
By the way, I have over 20 years of experience officiating high school level football, baseball, basketball, amateur adult softball, flag football and basketball as well as 5 years experince training football, basketball and baseball officials and that does not make me any more of an expert than anyone who can read and correctly interpret the rule book for any sport at any level.
 
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#103
#103
sigmundoooz said:
The targeting rule DOES NOT REQUIRE ALL ELEMENTS of those four bullet points combined to be targeting. A single bullet point can require multiple elements but all four bullet points are individual infractions per bullet point. If all elements of each bullet point are satisfied, targeting has occurred. The fourth bullet point has two elements, 1)Lowering the head, and 2) initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet. You do also realize there are many differences in the rules at the high school and college level, correct? Here is the actual relavent sections of the rule versus just the abbreviated post you made with four bullet points.

"Targeting and Making Forcible Contact
With the Crown of the Helmet
ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of the helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul."

Skipping to the Note 1 to include one indicator of targeting. The last listed indicator reads:

"Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet"

Those quotes are directly from the 2019 NCAA Football Rule Book. (Actually a PDF instead of a book)

The video evidence is absolutely clear Article 3 takes place along with the required element of lowering the head listed in Note 1.

Proclaiming expertise on NCAA Football Rules by declaring experience as a TSSAA football official is the equivalent of declaring experience officiating in the CFL makes one an expert at NFL rules.
Click to expand...
Easy that's a TSSAA 7 year none rule interpretation future sec screw up official!
 
#104
#104
The SC player looks like he keeps his head upright through the hit. To me it looks like his facemask is what hits. Not the crown. He doesn't lower his head like Bituli does. Guarantano hit at 1:53:20 in the first video. Bituli hit at 52:15 in the second video.






And just so everyone can see the ncaa penalty breakdown for targeting. Bullet point 4 under note 1 is what the Guarantano hit may fall under depending on how you view the hit. This is copied straight off the NCAA pdf:

1572261903412.png
 
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#105
#105
jkleno said:
By the letter of the law, it might be targeting. However, I have never seen it called on a hit to the mid-section.
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I saw it last week on Bituli for a hit to a player's back and they made it clear that the hit can be any part of the body.
 
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#107
#107
midtnvol2 said:
Its not targeting, It has to be a hit to the head or neck area. See the NCAA rule.

  • Launch--a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area.
  • A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground.
  • Leading with helmet, shoulder forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area.
  • Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet.
Click to expand...

Are you really going keep on like the last bullet point isn't there?
 
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#108
#108
midtnvol2 said:
Im a 7 year TSSAA official and I have been taught this on the HS level with multiple trainings with videos breaking down targeting and non targeting hits. So I have a lot more than a damn clue! How much training have you had? I would guess none. You can't pull one or two elements of the rule and make it targeting. He was hit in his chest, not the head or neck! The rule was put into place to prevent concussions from hits to the head! If I Was on the field no targeting on JG. On Tyler Byrd's hit early in the second half, that was targeting and should have been called. In HS I'd throw that flag all day long and have at least a dozen times in the past year. Byrd was defenseless, the defender had room to avoid him but continued and threw a hard forearm into the side of Byrd's head. That meets all elements of the rule! If you don't have contact above the shoulders it isn't going to be called. Thats why Moseley's hit on the KY WR in KY was overturned to no targeting because he hit him in the shoulder not the head or neck! But please continue to see what you want to see. Where is your outrage for Byrd or is it just for JG???
Click to expand...

Lol confirmed everything we thought in 1 post. Officials don't even understand what they are calling.
 
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#110
#110
midtnvol2 said:
Im a 7 year TSSAA official and I have been taught this on the HS level with multiple trainings with videos breaking down targeting and non targeting hits. So I have a lot more than a damn clue! How much training have you had? I would guess none. You can't pull one or two elements of the rule and make it targeting. He was hit in his chest, not the head or neck! The rule was put into place to prevent concussions from hits to the head! If I Was on the field no targeting on JG. On Tyler Byrd's hit early in the second half, that was targeting and should have been called. In HS I'd throw that flag all day long and have at least a dozen times in the past year. Byrd was defenseless, the defender had room to avoid him but continued and threw a hard forearm into the side of Byrd's head. That meets all elements of the rule! If you don't have contact above the shoulders it isn't going to be called. Thats why Moseley's hit on the KY WR in KY was overturned to no targeting because he hit him in the shoulder not the head or neck! But please continue to see what you want to see. Where is your outrage for Byrd or is it just for JG???
Click to expand...

Emmanuel Moseley was ejected for targeting on that hit.

 
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#111
#111
jkleno said:
No targeting hence the injury to wrist and not head.
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You don’t have to hit in the head or neck area for targeting just look at Bitili hit on gole line couple weeks ago. He hit him
In his arm out area. But further more the USCjr player lead with the crown of his helmet and made forceable contact with our QB.
 
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#115
#115
LordBolton said:
He instinctively put his hand up to defend his face, hence the injury to the wrist. In any case it was a clear late hit, which also wasn't called.
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It was definitely right on the edge, but I don't know that it was clear. In the NFL, that's probably a roughing the passer flag for landing on top of the QB.
 
#118
#118
TheDeeble said:
Doesn't look like targeting to me.
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TBH, I dont really know what the he!! Is targeting and what is not? The interpretation is different week to week and depending on the officiating crew. Next week, that’s targeting and the kid is gone for a half, this week it wasn’t, who knows? The only issue I have is the replay booth is so quick to call for review when it’s one of our guys in question or the refs are real quick to call it on us and then go to the review. Does anyone have any stats showing teams and number of players called for targeting? I’d be curious to see that.
GBO!!
 
#119
#119
We were in Section W, Row 1:
1. The body shot rarely gets called.
2. The targeting no call on the dropped sideline pass. Was right in front of us. Horrible no Call.
3. The Face Mask No Call. Horrible.
4. The Targeting call on us. Horrible. Clearly not a target no matter how many clips you watch.
5. 4 missed "touchdown" calls in the end zones that went to review. I know it's protocol on those type plays to call it and let it get reversed, but come on. No ball ever got within a half yard. Then when they did keep it a TD, it was clearly not. Only a small portion of the helmet broke the plane. the ball was in his left hand. He got turned out. The ball clearly never even made it to the line. I don't get how replay even missed that. The only explanation is that they had signaled so many touchdowns already that got reversed, replay had to give them one.

One of the worst games I have ever seen for officiating.

But, we ate at Gus' pre-game, and 17th St Market post-game. And got Jason Witten's autograph. And a huge victory in many ways. A great day, in spite of those whistled peons.
 
#120
#120
midtnvol2 said:
Its not targeting, It has to be a hit to the head or neck area. See the NCAA rule.

  • Launch--a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area.
  • A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground.
  • Leading with helmet, shoulder forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area.
  • Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet.
Click to expand...

Any of the four bullets in YOUR rule excerpt can be applied independantly... the last bullet by itself made the hit on JG a foul... the third bullet is damning in this instance.. the neck area does not have to be above the pads....

Absolutely a foul.... he attacked by lowering his head and contacted with the crown of his helmet which has be further defined as starting with the area right above the facemask.... last bullet DOES NOT REQUIRE contact to the head and neck area.
 
#122
#122
imavolfan said:
Not targeting but I agree the hit to Jennings after he already made the catch could have been called but it was close.
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If you lead with your head it is targeting. They don't want tacklers getting hurt too.

I thought that hit on JJ 3 yards past the end zone was targeting or at least a flagrant PF.
 
#125
#125
sigmundoooz said:
By the way, I have over 20 years of experience officiating high school level football, baseball, basketball, amateur adult softball, flag football and basketball as well as 5 years experince training football, basketball and baseball officials and that does not make me any more of an expert than anyone who can read and correctly interpret the rule book for any sport at any level.
Click to expand...


He was obviously trying to help out those that could read the rules and come to any other conclusion on the missed calls in this game.....
 
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