stock market was up today...

[KB5252]

:lolabove: Good God. You don't see how Wall Street is to blame? That's rich.

Are you saying Wall Street shoulders most of the blame here? There is plenty of blame to go around but Wall Street was just doing what it does. Government enabled and even encouraged the practices that led to the collapse. Many high ranking democrats along with a few Republicans benefited greatly from Fanny and Freddy's role in this debacle.

 

[OWB]

If you are pissed about the deficit Bush left us with (as I am too), you must be furious at Obama. Is that correct?

I don't know yet. It's too early. Things are such a mess that it's going to take some time. It's way too early to even start to see how Obama's plan is working. Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better. I'm not even saying that Obama's way is the way. I'm just amused about how every Republican in the world is so quick to try and pin all of our Nation's problems on Obama. It's ridiculous at this point.

 

[droski]

Funny how things aren't relevant when you don't like the answer you'll have to give.

1. before bush entered office economic indicators were dropping. 2. before clinton entered office economic indicators were significantly rising. 3. before obama entered office economic indicators were dropping.

#1 and #3 are bush's fault and #2 is all clinton right? edit: in other words if clinton can turn around the economy immediately, bush can tank it immediately, why can't obama turn it around immediately if democrats are oh so much better at the economy?

 

[droski]

I don't know yet. It's too early. Things are such a mess that it's going to take some time. It's way too early to even start to see how Obama's plan is working. Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better. I'm not even saying that Obama's way is the way. I'm just amused about how every Republican in the world is so quick to try and pin all of our Nation's problems on Obama. It's ridiculous at this point.

the only thing that is currently obama's fault is the continual drop in the stock market. that combined with obama's policies will make getting out of this a hell of a lot harder than it would be under a normal president.

 

[KB5252]

Well KB, I guess you all have to hang your hat on something. Lord knows there's not much from the last 8 years. :good!:

Republicans shouldn't pretend otherwise. Bush's spending was a disaster, no arguments here. I just think it funny that Obama is continuing and even expanding on Bush's biggest mistake and many still carry water for him. Bush is over, this is Obama's show now. If the left wants to blame Bush while driving this country even further into the ground the Democratic victory will not last long. Obama is no Clinton, even the left is beginning to see the light.

 

[droski]

Republicans shouldn't pretend otherwise. Bush's spending was a disaster, no arguments here. I just think it funny that Obama is continuing and even expanding on Bush's biggest mistake and many still carry water for him. Bush is over, this is Obama's show now. If the left wants to blame Bush while driving this country even further into the ground the Democratic victory will not last long. Obama is no Clinton, even the left is beginning to see the light.

exactly. "bush is an idiot" is not a reason to support anyting obama suggests.

 

[vol_in_ar]

it was actually up this morning, for at an hour. but now it's back down. :no:

waiting on it to recover..

Nothing like getting your Bonus statement with your options listed and being underwater from the beginning, because the stock price dropped from when the strike price was determined...

 

[vols4sure]

I don't know yet. It's too early. Things are such a mess that it's going to take some time. It's way too early to even start to see how Obama's plan is working. Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better. I'm not even saying that Obama's way is the way. I'm just amused about how every Republican in the world is so quick to try and pin all of our Nation's problems on Obama. It's ridiculous at this point.

I don't exactly pin them on Obama because his presidency is just starting. My problem with him is the agendas he is pushing right now are going to put us in enormous debt especially at a time when the economy is so bad. How can you pay for healthcare reform when we have 10% unemployment.

He knows he has a limited time to push these agendas and is putting America into unjustifiable danger by doing so when the economy is in such bad shape.

 

[TheDeeble]

He knows he has a limited time to push these agendas and is putting America into unjustifiable danger by doing so when the economy is in such bad shape.

Yep. And as his agenda tanks the market more and more he'll continue to blame the Bush administration.

You can't talk down personal success, heavily penalize it, and expect anyone to want to invest.

 

[UT IE 95]

clinton left during the greatest job bubble in the history of this country.

It's only called a bubble after the fact. Bush and his administration increased goverenment, went to war, and bumbled foreign policies. This, along with many other factors, makes it easy to call it in hindsight, a bubble. When in fact, a booming economy could have been leveraged into much more long term prosperity. Fact is, the world lost faith in the Bush administration a long time ago - and confidence is everything.

 

[droski]

It's only called a bubble after the fact. Bush and his administration increased goverenment, went to war, and bumbled foreign policies. This, along with many other factors, makes it easy to call it in hindsight, a bubble. When in fact, a booming economy could have been leveraged into much more long term prosperity. Fact is, the world lost faith in the Bush administration a long time ago - and confidence is everything.

you must be kidding me. the dotcom boom caused the employment bubble. the dotcoms had no business model and were losing billions by the time bush took office. jesus himself couldn't have saved those companies. edit: and let's not forget that bush had the highest approval rating in history after the dotcom collapse so confidence was clearly not the problem.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Since I know you're involved with Wall Street and Wall Street is THE BIGGEST reason for all of our problems, I have a hard time taking anything you say too seriously. Sorry.

Seems like reality is also an issue for you, making seriously street a two way job.
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[BigPapaVol]

I don't know yet. It's too early. Things are such a mess that it's going to take some time. It's way too early to even start to see how Obama's plan is working. Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better. I'm not even saying that Obama's way is the way. I'm just amused about how every Republican in the world is so quick to try and pin all of our Nation's problems on Obama. It's ridiculous at this point.

look around a little. He's not being blamed for anything but the 30% lock we've taken since arrived. The rest of the complaints are about his using a crisis to push an agenda that America is overwhelmingly against. The little tax plan is also simply a disaster to a down economy. Bottom up economics only exists in the minds of liberal clowns like Obama.
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[TheDeeble]

The rest of the complaints are about his using a crisis to push an agenda that America is overwhelmingly against.

I wonder where he got that idea......

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told an audience Friday "never waste a good crisis,"

Never waste a good crisis, Clinton says on climate | Reuters

“Rule one: Never allow a crisis to go to waste,” Mr. Emanuel said in an interview on Sunday. “They are opportunities to do big things.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/us/politics/10obama.html?ref=politics

 

[WA_Vol]

The market was driven down more by the economic data, then BO IMO.

The credit crisis caused by derivatives and deregulation in the banking industry during the last decade is what drove the market down, not anything BO has done in 60 days.

The economy isnt going to turn around in a couple of months either. This recession is projected to last the rest of the year.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

The market was driven down more by the economic data, then BO IMO.

The credit crisis caused by derivatives and deregulation in the banking industry during the last decade is what drove the market down, not anything BO has done in 60 days.

The economy isnt going to turn around in a couple of months either. This recession is projected to last the rest of the year and longer.

neither shld it drop as quickly as it has over the past 60 days

 

[droski]

The credit crisis caused by derivatives and deregulation in the banking industry during the last decade is what drove the market down, not anything BO has done in 60 days.
.

and what % of this was not known before obama took office? any? and why did the market rally significantly when it appeared obama would be more moderate and collapse when it was obvious he would not?

 

[rjd970]

look around a little. He's not being blamed for anything but the 30% lock we've taken since arrived. The rest of the complaints are about his using a crisis to push an agenda that America is overwhelmingly against. The little tax plan is also simply a disaster to a down economy. Bottom up economics only exists in the minds of liberal clowns like Obama.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

1. Him using a crisis to push an agenda is no different than anyone else. Where were all the up in arms republicans when the Bushies were doing this?

2. Bottom up economics only exists in the minds of liberal clowns like trickle down economics exists in the minds of neo-capitalists clowns. A moderation of the two is best, and history hasn't shown otherwise. One models lets the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...the other doesn't let anybody get rich or get poor. Both are worthless.

And I don't know what you have been watching, but Obama himself has been very willing to be bi-partisan, it is Pelosi, Reid, and the other democratic leaders that has taken the reigns and re-worked this stimulus crap.

If we can get a republican majority in Congress with Obama at the helm things would be much better than they are now.

And I'm sorry, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for Wall Street right now, and I'm sure most Americans don't either.

 

[droski]

And I don't know what you have been watching, but Obama himself has been very willing to be bi-partisan,

link? saying he wants to be bipartisan isn't the same thing btw.

 

[vols4sure]

1. Him using a crisis to push an agenda is no different than anyone else. Where were all the up in arms republicans when the Bushies were doing this?


2. Bottom up economics only exists in the minds of liberal clowns like trickle down economics exists in the minds of neo-capitalists clowns. A moderation of the two is best, and history hasn't shown otherwise. One models lets the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...the other doesn't let anybody get rich or get poor. Both are worthless.

And I don't know what you have been watching, but Obama himself has been very willing to be bi-partisan, it is Pelosi, Reid, and the other democratic leaders that has taken the reigns and re-worked this stimulus crap.

If we can get a republican majority in Congress with Obama at the helm things would be much better than they are now.

And I'm sorry, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for Wall Street right now, and I'm sure most Americans don't either.

1) The typical "but Bush" response? Where is the CHANGE away from Bush.

2)lol:
Obama's approval rating of 60% as compared to very poor ratings of the other democratic leaders. He could put extreme political pressure on Pelosi and Reid if he chose to. I may have missed it, but he has not once flexed his muscle against Pelosi or Reid. Not signing this year's budget would be a great start but it won't happen. Tell them to get rid of the earmarks.

Completely agree. Neither party should have power in president, senate and house at the same time.

 

[rjd970]

link? saying he wants to be bipartisan isn't the same thing btw.

He was the one that sat down with the Republicans and listened to what they had to say. He was willing to work with them on things they could come together on like medicaid and SS reform...it was Pelosi who was saying things like "We won, we don't have to listen to you". I think the majority of the blame lies with the democratic leadership.

Although, to a certain extent, I do agree that Obama should be putting more pressure on the yahoo's running things in Congress. Other than Obama's insistence on cutting defense and pushing this healthcare crap, the biggest beef I have with him is his lack of political courage in this regard.

 

[rjd970]

1) The typical "but Bush" response? Where is the CHANGE away from Bush.

2)lol:
Obama's approval rating of 60% as compared to very poor ratings of the other democratic leaders. He could put extreme political pressure on Pelosi and Reid if he chose to. I may have missed it, but he has not once flexed his muscle against Pelosi or Reid. Not signing this year's budget would be a great start but it won't happen. Tell them to get rid of the earmarks.

Completely agree. Neither party should have power in president, senate and house at the same time.

This has nothing to do with the "But Bush" response, it has to do with the hypocrisy shown by many on the right with these issues.

And for the record, I would love for Obama to not sign this year's budget until there isn't 1 dollar earmarked for anything other than defense.

 

[MG1968]

This has nothing to do with the "But Bush" response, it has to do with the hypocrisy shown by many on the right with these issues.

And for the record, I would love for Obama to not sign this year's budget until there isn't 1 dollar earmarked for anything other than defense.

get used to being disappointed

 

[droski]

He was the one that sat down with the Republicans and listened to what they had to say. He was willing to work with them on things they could come together on like medicaid and SS reform...it was Pelosi who was saying things like "We won, we don't have to listen to you". I think the majority of the blame lies with the democratic leadership.

it seemed like lip service to me. i think his version of comprimise was for the republicans to go more towards him, not hte other way around.

 

[rjd970]

it seemed like lip service to me. i think his version of comprimise was for the republicans to go more towards him, not hte other way around.

I think it was more than lip service. I think he was making a genuine effort in the early going. The version of compromise you refer to was that practiced by Pelosi and Reid.